Electric Vehicle Summer 2012 Quarterly Discussion Webinar (Text Version)
This is a text version of the video for the Electric Vehicle Summer 2012 Quarterly Discussion webinar presented on June 25, 2012, by Linda Bluestein, National Clean Cities; Jim Francfort, Idaho National Laboratory; and Don Karner, EcoTality.
COORDINATOR: Welcome and thank you for standing by. At this time, all participants are on a listen-only mode. During the question-and-answer session, please press star 1 to ask a question.
Today's conference is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time.
I will now turn the conference over to Linda Bluestein.
Thank you, you may begin.
LINDA BLUESTEIN: Good afternoon or morning everywhere depending on where you are in the country. Welcome to today's quarterly Electric Vehicle Webinar hosted by the U.S. Department of Energy's Clean Cities program.
Today we have some excellent invited guests that will give us presentations that I think are very timely. We'll have Jim Francfort from the Idaho National Laboratory and Don Karner from ECOtality.
But before I get started with full introductions I want to go through some information about our resources and websites with Clean Cities.
We've discussed some on some of the previous quarterly Webinars and we've done a short presentation that I'm going to go through very quickly before we get started with today's program just to give you a sampling of some information and resources that you should know about that are on our website. So let me get started with that.
And I'm Linda Bluestein. I'm the Co-Director of the U.S. Department of Energy's Clean Cities program and we're in charge of the deployment for the Vehicle Technologies Program here at DOE and we work with 100 Clean Cities coalitions nationwide on methods and activities to reduce the use of petroleum throughout the country.
First of all just a quick introduction to our Clean Cities website, you know, some things people are very interested in are opportunities for particularly financial opportunities. So, you know, we stress that on this website and it's a great place to look for information and get information resources such as newsletters, technology bulletins, and technical assistance provided by the Clean Cities program. There's a full explanation of these on our website.
We also have the Alternative Fuel Data Center or the afdc.energy.gov website. And some of the main features of that include our alternative fuel station locator where you can look up and map routes for alternative fuel refilling stations of all types. That includes electric vehicle charging.
And in addition to that we have full information on state laws and incentives and you can search those according to state or multiple states and according to types of laws.
We also have information on vehicle availability for consumers. We have lots of data analysis and trends to exhibit as well as a lot of different publications and tools such as cost calculators including those for electric vehicles.
In addition to that we have a number of published materials that can be downloaded for publication for your benefit. And those include a fact sheet on electronic and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles and also we also have four manuals that were recently produced by the National Renewal Energy Lab. And those are done for consumers, fleet managers, station owners, and electrical contractors.
And they talk a lot about installing infrastructure, the processes involved, and best practices. So we hope that you will take a look at those. They are also downloadable and printable as well.
We also have a lot of information on best practices and lessons learned including, and this is on our Clean Cities television station. And one of those is a full installation information video which we did called EVSC 101. It's on Clean Cities Television. It's been used as a resource by a lot of different folks. It includes a lot of information from the code officials and standards officials and inspection community.
And we're really proud of that one. It's called EVSC 101 and would be a real benefit to any inspectors or code officials in your communities that need to get up to date on electric vehicle issues.
We also have a number of case studies that were done on, you know, how to sort of remove barriers and obstacles such as slope permitting process and other types of, and get more electric vehicles out on the street more quickly in communities. And we feature Oregon, Raleigh, Los Angeles, and Houston as examples. And those are great things to look at as well.
We also have information about demonstrations of vehicles, electric vehicles on our website.
And then of course on our Clean Cities website, cleancities.energy.gov we have full information about each of our Clean Cities coalitions across the country. Clean Cities coalitions all have a Clean Cities Coordinator that are the head of them, think about them as the Executive Director of that coalition.
You know, the coalitions bring together the local partnerships that make it possible to smooth the way for advanced technology and alternative fuel vehicles in their communities.
And if you go to the map and under the resources on cleancities.energy.gov you can get an intro to any one of these by just pointing and clicking on the particular Clean Cities coalition you can get a full biography of the Clean Cities' Coordinator. You can get a profile of what types of what types of technologies each Clean Cities coalitions use and you can get a link to their websites.
And it's a really great way to introduce yourselves to Clean Cities coalitions and the benefits that they provide in their communities.
And finally these are the resources. I would just really highly encourage everyone to look up these particular links and try out these resources and see all the valuable information that we have particularly on plug-in hybrid and electric vehicles. And I think that it would benefit everyone to take a look and understand the types of information and resources that we have on these.
And with that I'll conclude this portion of the presentation and also by the way, if you want to join these on a permanent basis please, these Webinars on a permanent basis please email Sandra Loi at nrel.gov and she'll put you on the permanent list for Webinars.
So just getting started with today's program I'd like to introduce our two guest speakers today. The first is Jim Francfort. He's with the Idaho National Laboratory. And he's been the Principle Investigator for the Department of Energy's Advanced Vehicle Testing Activity at the Idaho National Laboratory for the past 18 years.
The AVTA which is DOE's sole field based Advanced Technology Light Vehicle Test Program has tested over 8000 electric drive vehicle models in laboratory and on-road testing environments. Currently the AVTA is collecting data from more than 5000 vehicles and 8000 EVSC all equipped with data loggers and wireless communications.
And Jim will talk about some of the various field-based data collection projects that DOE has ongoing include the EV Project.
And Don Karner will talk to us a lot more about the EV Project. But today Jim is going to discuss the EV Project and other electric vehicle testing results to date.
And then after that we have Don Karner speaking. And just by way of quick introduction, you know, he is one of our Leads on the EV Project and of course ECOtality is working on that. And they have a website devoted to it which he'll give you the information about.
The EV Project is the largest deployment of electric vehicle charge infrastructure in history. To date there's more than 17 million miles of data collected and counting. And there are thousands of green connected vehicles being studied including the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Volt.
And they have 60 or more project partners. And this activity's taking place in 18 major cities and metropolitan areas and six states and the District of Columbia.
So he will talk today to us about lessons learned so far under that project which was started back in 2010 as a result of the Recovery Act and give us some ideas about what kind of lessons learned and information that's coming next.
So first we'd like to get started with Jim and we'll have Don give his presentation after that.
And Don, by way of introduction, just so you have that information up front he's got I guess multiple degrees in electrical engineering and also nuclear engineering. He's been working on electric vehicle projects for the last 20 years and he is President and Chief Innovation Officer of ECOtality.
So let's get started with Jim.
JIM FRANCFORT: Good morning Linda, thank you. For the audience there are 44 slides. I'm going to go through them rather quickly, happy to take any questions after I think Don's presentation.
WOMAN: Excuse me Jim, Jim?
JIM FRANCFORT: Yes?
WOMAN: Can you please speak up or closer to the phone?
JIM FRANCFORT: How's that, is that better?
WOMAN: That's better.
JIM FRANCFORT: Okay stop me if I get too soft.
WOMAN: All right wonderful, thank you.
JIM FRANCFORT: Usually that's not a problem except in bars. Anyway I will give you an address at the end of the presentation that will give you the location of the presentation.
So my name is Jim Francfort. I am with the Idaho National Laboratory. A little delay here in bringing up the next slide. I'm going to give you a little bit of background on who's involved, how we do things, the EV Project, some of the status and some of the results. Also talk about some Recovery Act and technology assessment demonstration activities and just some of the other activities we have going on.
So briefly if you're not familiar the Idaho National Lab, we're a DOE Laboratory in Eastern Idaho about 900 square miles. It's a multi-purpose laboratory with many different tasks and roles.
As far as the Advanced Vehicle Testing Activity it is a DOE program. INL and ECOtality have worked together for quite a long time. The goal like most of the Vehicle Technologies Program goals are petroleum reduction, energy security. And we joke that we try to confuse people with facts. We tend not to do modeling, predictions, we tend to do a lot of fact sheets and let the benchmarking speak for itself.
As you can see there's a multiplicity of different technologies from plug-ins, neighbor electrics, pure battery electrics. To date we've accumulated about 45 million test miles on about 8000 vehicles and more than 100 different models of electric drive vehicles.
We accomplished that by using data loggers on vehicles whether it's—regardless of technology. We also use data loggers on the Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment, the EVSE be it Level 2 or Fast Chargers. And we've actually been doing this since 1993, we've been putting data loggers on vehicles.
We do a series of reports both for the public and internally to ensure the quality of the data.
As far as the data we do a lot of NDA's which puts constraints on how we handle the raw data. And what we do would not be possible without trust of our partners and those NDA's and CRADAs allow us to achieve that with legal constraints on how we can report and collect the data.
Slide 8, the goal of the EV Project is to build and study that infrastructure required for the eventual deployment of the next million, 5 million electric drive vehicles so understand how people use a charging infrastructure, their seasonal impacts, does it look like there's different types of patterns? Are they in the right places? Is it Cracker Barrel, is it Wal-Mart, or is it at their home?
To accomplish that we get a data stream from the EVSE and the key parameters there are the date/time stamp, when the vehicle is connected, disconnected, when the charging starts, and I'll show you some numbers that show there's quite a bit of difference there.
And then the peak power, average power, total energy, and looking at that 15 minute profile which is what the utilities are very interested in is how that potentially could affect their transmission and distribution.
From the vehicles, from the Leafs and the Volts we get a—every time there's a key on, key off event we get the odometer, the state of charge, date/time stamp, what type of event it was, and also the GPS.
The date/time stamp, the GPS allow us to match that data streams to the data that comes from ECOtality and the Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment.
So briefly just some of the deployment to date information you can see we're combined about 43,700 vehicles. We've accumulated data on to date and about 27 and 28 million miles. We're getting daily about 104,000 miles of data a day from about 3500 charge events also.
As far as the deployment numbers for the EVSE you can see that we're up about a little over 6000 units and you can see the ramp up where the non-residential which is public or fleet type of deployments is also ramping up now with about 1500, 1600 of those units. And the—as far as the charging events in total we're up about 700,000 charging events.
In terms of energy use we've used over 6500 megawatts. But I want to point out here you cannot take the vehicle data and divide that in terms of miles into the energy use because non-project vehicles are also using the charging infrastructure and the Volts and the Leafs can also charge outside the project. For instance you go to Grandma's house you use 110 volt charger.
As far as the regional differences you'll see San Francisco has the most Leafs EVSE installed in the project to date with about 1200. This data is from the first quarter so it's the January through March period. And those, that 74 page fax sheet is on the Web again, you'll get the address.
In terms of these number of vehicles that are reported in that data set it's about 3000 Leafs and a little over 300 Volts, a total number of trips about 850,000. And that one quarter we got about 6 million miles of data and you look at the trip distance, Leafs are driven slightly less about 7 miles versus 8 miles per trip.
Average distance per day, the Leafs are driven a little less 30 versus 36. And that's for days driven not total days the vehicle's been owned.
And you'll see the trips between charging events a little more for the Leafs. And the Leafs are driven a little farther between charging events. And yet the Volts are driven, excuse me, charged more often.
This is the state of charge, top right is the state of charge, the start of charging events kind of a traditional scatter plot there with your bell curve. Most of them are in that 40 to 60 to 70. And the bottom left you've got the state of charge both home and away at completion. Some vehicles have that default where it stops, completes charging I think it's about 78% in terms of an option to save battery life while the rest are usually over 90% to 100%.
In terms of percent of charging locations you'll see Tucson most of the charging occurs at home there at 90% while in Tennessee and San Francisco and LA areas it's about 20% of the charging is occurring away from home.
And in terms of, this is for the Leafs, in terms of frequency in the bottom left you'll see about most of the time, about 92% of the time we're able to characterize where it's occurring, 8% of the time we don't and that's often because of things such as may be occurring in a garage where there's no cellular. Events like that occur also.
So in terms of miles per day there is some slight regional differences. You'll see Tennessee, Chattanooga, it's being driven about the most and in Oregon the least, about 27 miles per day. And then that mimics the charge event data too.
In terms of average miles per trip again we're seeing Chattanooga is the longest about eight and then you're seeing Oregon about six so a little bit of regional differences so far but not that much.
So this is taking the data, Slide number 19 is taking the data from each of the quarterly reports and I want to warn you that the first quarter I believe was only about 35 or 40 Leafs.
But it basically kind of gives you any kind of trends we're seeing yet so, you know, it's fairly early to make any, you know, pronunciations that this is this way or that but we are seeing a little bit of decrease in miles per day down to about 30 but we're looking at total overall it's about 30 because the volume of vehicles now in the most recent reporting periods.
Looking at the Volt data the top left you'll see most of the charging occurs at 10% or less with the single largest segment is at 10% or less data charge start. And you can see the overwhelming majority of the time it's fully charged at 90% or higher at the conclusion. And then the bottom right is the charging locations for the Volts.
In terms of usage of the Volts you can see Houston, Washington State, they're being driven the most miles per day and then you can see that in Oregon they're driving the least. I don't know if that's a function of the light rail system in Oregon which is heavily used or not but Oregon does seem to be driving the least amount of miles per day in vehicle.
Bottom left you can see the miles, average miles per trip, Houston about 9 miles, Oregon again about 7.
This is the profile of charging and the percent of units that have a vehicle connected so the next slide will be the actual energy. But at the top left this is national data. We're seeing that at about midnight about 20% of the charging units, excuse me, residential charging units and public charging units have a vehicle connected. In the report we do have a breakdown by residential and public also.
Excuse me that was about noon was about 20% and you get to the middle of the night you're up about 50%. Weekends it's not quite as difference in slope, about 25% of the time at noon and again 45% or so late at night, early in the morning.
In terms of energy you'll see about noon on the top left about 0.5 or so that's the amount of AC megawatts being demanded by the vehicles. This is national data. Public and residential again the report does break it down by residential and public in different sections.
At 0 o'clock, midnight, quite a bit of a spike there, their time of use rates that are influencing that and I'll show you some regional impacts. And so that's weekday and then you can see weekend same type of profile impacts people who look like they are sensitive to what the cost to charge the vehicles.
So the next Slide 24, top left San Diego, big impact there. It looks like only at midnight but at 1:00 in the morning is another impact. My assumption is that they've set, some of them set it to charge at 1:00 so they're thinking in terms of time of day, time zone, you know, when you have Daylight Savings Time.
Bottom left, San Francisco again a bit of an impact there you can see from time of use. Top right, Washington State there is no time of use. Electricity there is relatively inexpensive compared to the national cost. Oregon does have a 10:00 pm time of use kick-in so a little bit of a spike there but again relatively inexpensive because of the hydro system.
Slide 25, R2 is residential Level 2 and weekday, WD, and weekend. You can see that the vehicles are connected about 11, 11-1/2 hours and they're only charging about 2 to 2.4 hours. And on average they're taking between 7.3 and 8.7 AC kilowatt hours, looking at the public, P2, there a few less hours, 4 to 6 hours, charging about 2 hours and a bit less energy from 6.6 to 7.3.
Slide 26 is the number of units deployed to date by each of the reporting quarters. And we do report data a little differently than ECOtality in that we're reporting units that we're collecting data from. They're reporting units they've deployed so if a unit is not used we will not see it in our data yet.
In terms of percent of the total number of EVSE you can see that the public units are now about 21%, 22% of all the EVSE deployed. And I put that in to put in content.
Let's look at the bottom black line here by quarter. We're seeing that about, well it started about zero because there weren't any units out there that about 3% or so of the charging that's occurring at the public EVSE. In the terms of connection time they're connected about 7% of the time versus the residential which are the other one.
So trying to figure out about how much charging occurs in terms of both megawatt hours and charge events the bottom red and blue lines are the public, the blue is the megawatt hours, what percent are going, in the public domain are going into the vehicles. And then the blue is the, excuse me, the red is the percent charge event.
So it looks like it's going up to about 10%, certainly approaching 10% of the time and of course the residential is going to come down to 90%.
In terms of total number of charging events you can see while only 10%, the blue line, it's still about 24,000 charge events occurred. So there's a bit of a slope there showing increased use of the public charging events. And that's a function probably of, you know, the being deployed, the rate they're being deployed and also people's awareness and knowledge of them. And finding locations where they can charge.
So Slide 21–31, this is a transition here. I'm talking about a separate Volt project with DOE. This is non-public fleet drivers. Total we've got almost 900 million miles. They're averaging about 70.6 miles per gallon. And that's a function really of how often they're charged. The public drivers are not charging them as often as the Leaf drivers, which is about 70, excuse me, as the EV Project drivers which is about 70%.
The fleet drivers are operating 48.9, 49% of the time in electric mode. Again, not an indictment of the technology but it's just how often they're charging and part of it's the influence of course by the range and availability of charging also.
So continuing to Slide 32, just a breakdown, I'm not going to go through all this, amount of energy, how many hours, how many miles. You can go back and look at that. Again about 40% of the time it was in EV mode.
Ford Escapes, 21 of those, it's an advanced technology vehicle, about half a million miles, various fact sheets on the Web. The key bottom bullet there though is when you plug the vehicle in and driving electric assist mode you're getting a 63% increase in your miles per gallon. We're looking at charge depleting which is 52 miles per gallon and charge sustaining which is 32 miles per gallon.
And that, a lot of that occurs because of, you know, again charging them. The engine time is off longer in charge depleting mode. City you're seeing it off 36% of the time and city operations in 22% charge sustaining versus the highway it's 12% versus 4%.
The top left graph does show the charge depleting miles per gallon is that blue. You can see it approaches about 65 miles to the gallon because of the more moderate temperatures you're not using the auxiliary loads such as air conditioning and heat, you're not having to warm the catalyst as much for emissions.
To date there's been 108 Chrysler Ram pickups deployed. These are PHEV's. We've got about 700,000 miles. They're averaging about 19 miles per gallon and when they're charging with PHEV energy in the pack, excuse me, that's the overall. In charge depleting it's 23, charge sustaining 17 and so by plugging in the vehicles and doing charge depleting operations you're getting a 35% increase in miles per gallon.
The big number there, 39% of the time the engine is stopped both while the vehicle is driving or stopped at say a traffic light. And turning off the engine is probably the easiest way to save petroleum.
As far as the charge point data we're also collecting data to date about 2500 EVSE. This is another Recovery Act. It's a Coulomb Project. That the breakdown there a lot of public, we've broken down some private, commercial, non-public access but they're not residential. We've about a quarter of a million charge events and we've used about 1.5 million watt hours to date.
Breakdown here, percent time the vehicle is connected at home about 51%, the private fleet's 29% and public about 7%. And drawing power we're seeing about 16% of the time residential, private's 9% and the public's about 4%. We're getting only EVSE data for this so we're not sure which vehicles are actually connected but they are using the infrastructure.
Just some of the other projects briefly, we are starting a Fast Charge study. There's lots of questions of what is Fast Charge impact going to be on life of the batteries? And hopefully we can answer that.
We've also working with, the Department of Energy's also working with the National Fire Prevention Association and NHTSA to develop a first responder training program on how to deal with the eventual fires that will occur in vehicles. There's about 280,000 I believe gasoline car fires a year so chances are there's going to be some electric vehicle fires also going forward in the public domain.
We've done some EVSE testing, working on some unique battery testing. That's our battery mule, we're putting the battery in there in the bottom with the cowboy help. We are doing some wireless testing also in support of DOE they've got a funding opportunity that's being reviewed now. Look at that technology. Collecting some data from some Escapes conversions in the South Coast Air Quality Management District.
We're providing some support to DOD with infrastructure and looking at the potential for base electrification in terms of using more electric drive vehicles. I've completed a impact on lighting on vehicles, what that is in terms of miles per gallon. We've got some other vehicles from some of the other labs.
We've tested some Post Office vehicles, all fact sheets on the Web. And we've done some of the, supporting the Office of Electricity also with similar deployments.
So summary, lot of miles, lot of charging events per day, we're seeing some variation, about 15% or so variation in Leaf miles per day, again similar variation in the miles per trip, some variation in miles per charge, some variation 68% to 89% of where charging occurs home versus non-home charging.
Already mentioned the changes in charges per day, the variations, miles per day and then miles between charge event.
So I do want to mention that when you do go to see the reports it took about 53,000 variables of generated each quarter to populate the reports that we are putting up on the Web.
A little more summary information, the vehicles are connected about four or five times longer than actually needed so there's some opportunity to shift charging if utilities are finding that their grids are under stress. Off peak rates do seem to have an impact.
There's a lot of opportunity to learn here. We're just really starting into the data collection part and I say that even with 27 million miles. One of the challenges we have is your normal research project, you would normally design the project, conduct it, collect the data, analyze it and report. And so we do get some backfilling of data.
If you took a summary after the first four or five quarters, that summary report will be slightly different—the summary reach of the quarterly data. We're trying to report the data in a timely manner. And it will take a couple of seasons to get true, good, seasonal data with large numbers of vehicles deployed.
There's a plethora of different opportunities for additional research we're looking at as we get more data. It will be interesting to see what EVSE's are never used or hardly used, which ones are used the most, do people change over time? Can we break down some characteristics of the operators and how that affects charging?
Finally the website, avt.inl.gov, if you go to the publications page look under C, Clean Cities, you'll see the publication from today's presentation and a lot of the publications from the Recovery Act. Everything that I've talked about today it's from public fact sheets that are on the Web.
LINDA BLUESTEIN: Jim, thank you for that overview of the EV Project and other data that you're collecting at Idaho National Laboratory for the Department of Energy Recovery Act Project and others. We really appreciate that.
Next we're going to switch over to Don Karner who's going to drill down farther and talk more about his project, the EV Project. He's going to give an overview, a definition of the status of the project, and some information about lessons learned that he's collected, the company has collected during its deployment of the EVSE and vehicles in the project and also talking about future lessons learned.
I would like to say that we are going to wait and hold questions to the end of his presentation so save up your questions and we'll have some time following that to answer them.
We'll also be putting these presentations and a recording of this Webinar on the Clean Cities website as well and Sandra Loi will tell you how to get that information.
And so Don, go ahead.
DON KARNER: Okay thanks, Linda. I'm a little intimidated by Jim's 44 slides since I only have 24 but I'll also try and go through them fairly quickly so that we leave plenty of time for questions.
What I wanted to focus on today was some of the lessons learned from the deployment phase of the EV Project which we're still in. And deploying the infrastructure in order to develop some mature infrastructure in various cities across the country, then we have a phase of the project that is data collection.
And as Jim indicated in his presentation we're just really getting started with data collection even though we have now almost 30 million miles worth or a little over 30 million miles worth of data.
So from the deployment phase I'll talk a little bit about some of our lessons learned and let's see, I'm having trouble moving the slides.
Jim, would you just go ahead and...
JIM FRANCFORT: Maybe I'm still in, am I still in charge? I am. You see it on the bottom left there?
DON KARNER: Right.
JIM FRANCFORT: This is our click and clack moment here.
DON KARNER: Well I'm clicking the arrow but it's not doing anything.
JIM FRANCFORT: All right well I'll...
DON KARNER: Why don't you just click it for me there?
JIM FRANCFORT: Okay, okay. Clack!
DON KARNER: Okay, oops, you went too far.
JIM FRANCFORT: I think you did that.
DON KARNER: Did I? Oh it finally caught up with me.
JIM FRANCFORT: Yes.
DON KARNER: Oh I'm on Page 5 now, oh my goodness, 4, 3, 2, I apologize. Okay, there we are. We're back online.
So just briefly, the objectives of the EV Project are listed here. This developing mature charge infrastructure laboratories is as I said the phase that we're in now.
And I talk about this because really if you jump down a couple of bullets here you'll see that the real objective of the project is to gather data, to understand how people are utilizing the infrastructure, figure out how we can minimize impacts on the grid, look at payments and trial different payment systems.
And really once we build the laboratory is to conduct some experiments if you will in the laboratory, in these mature charge infrastructures, and then document and disseminate the results. So calls like this are our effort to disseminate results. We're just beginning some of the experiments if you will in the lab.
But I stress that there's a lot more to the EV Project than just deploying infrastructure. Because we've been in this phase for a while and because it was the first phase of the project a lot of people think that the project is just there to deploy infrastructure.
But really as Jim indicated what we're trying to do is gather information, gather data and lessons learned that will help us deploy nationally the infrastructure in the rest of the cities across America as EV's become more prevalent.
So things are going very slowly here for me advancing. I hesitate to push too many times.
JIM FRANCFORT: You're at three, you're at three.
DON KARNER: Not on mine, okay.
JIM FRANCFORT: You are.
DON KARNER: All right so let's just use yours, Jim.
Okay so from a deployment standpoint our objectives are to deploy 8000 residential chargers, residential EVSE. And that's in support of the Nissan Leaf, the Chevrolet Volt, and the Smart EV.
And actually we're doing the Smarts exclusively in San Diego in a ride share or a car share program with Car2go.
And so we actually deploy 8300 vehicles because there's 300 Smarts in San Diego in the Car2go rental program and they actually live off of the commercial infrastructure that's installed in San Diego, five thousand non-residential or commercial EVSE, workplace commercial locations public and street side and then ultimately 200 DC Fast Chargers.
The deployment takes place in a number of cities that are shown on the map here. Over the short life already of the EV Project we've added markets. We originally did not have San Francisco. We didn't have Dallas, Fort Worth, or Houston. We only had Nashville, Knoxville, and Chattanooga in Tennessee. We added Memphis and ultimately the entire state. And we've added Washington, D.C.
And that's all in pursuit of following where the vehicles are selling in order to develop these mature charge infrastructures we need vehicles to utilize the infrastructure. And so as new markets develop as the OEM's begin to deploy their vehicles in new market areas we tend to follow that.
And so we are now expanding as of August 1 into Atlanta, Chicago, and Philadelphia. Additionally we have extended the schedule of the project deployment phase to support the deployment objectives.
So, you know, we do want to get to the 8300 vehicles, 8000 residential EVSE, 5000 commercial EVSE in support of that and so we have extended the deployment phase to reach those objectives, added some additional cities that we believe will help us build to those numbers a little bit quicker.
And so if you're in Clean Cities in those areas hopefully you've already heard from us, you've already been contacted. We'll be launching very quickly and information campaign to make folks aware in those areas of what we're doing.
There's also some changes to the project itself with the extension for after August 1 our residential rebate or residential credit for installing the chargers goes from $1200 to $400. We still provide a free charger and still provide a credit but it is reduced from the $1200 level to the $400 level. That applies in all markets after August 1.
From a residential perspective we're installing the Blink EVSE and numbers to date look like what you see here in red. The numbers with an L represent the numbers of Leafs. So in the upper left hand corner for Seattle we have 693 Leafs deployed. And these numbers are as of last Friday. The V numbers are Volts so we have 62 Volts in Seattle.
If you jump down the coast a little bit and get down to San Diego, you'll see 647 Leafs to 113 Volts and 200 of the 300 Smarts, the S number have been deployed to date.
So that gives you a bit of picture of where we are with vehicles. If there's not an L in some locales like Texas, it's because prior to August we've not deploying Leafs in Texas. After August 1 we'll begin to deploy Leafs in Texas as well as in Washington, D.C.
No Volts in California in San Francisco and after August 1 there still won't be any Volts deployed with the project in San Francisco, so that's kind of the status of where we are with residential deployments.
For non-residential employments or deployments excuse me, we'll deploy at commercial installations like big box retailers. We'll install in public locations, this happens to be the Air and Space Museum in San Diego.
We'll install commercially in street side and also in residential locations and I'm sorry, this next slide is the work place location. This is actually the Nissan assembly plant in Smyrna, Tennessee. And residential street side this is San Diego.
So all of those when you add them all up the current commercial deployment looks like the numbers shown here in the map. And these are Level 2's and you see the note on Tennessee that the installation credit has been terminated in Tennessee and in the other areas the installation credits for commercial chargers still continue.
Although after August 1 there'll be some adjustments to the credits to reflect local wage rates, local permitting costs, and other costs of installation that will help in some of those areas that are a little more costly to pay a bigger portion of the installation cost. And I'll talk a little bit more about that later specifically related to the costs of permits.
Finally DC Fast Charger installations, we're targeting 200 DC Fast Chargers and our current status is shown here. We're just getting started really with DC Fast Chargers.
We've had a couple of bumps in the road with connector failures and so we are not deploying or not indicating the chargers as operable until they have the latest updated connector from Uzaki to make sure that we don't strand somebody that's counting on a charger being operable and they get there and the connector's broken.
But this is the situation that we have for DC Fast Chargers and again the 12 in Tennessee are all that will be in Tennessee. As of this date, no more charge—DC fast chargers in Tennessee.
So lessons learned, as I indicated in our objectives, we do want to disseminate information that we gathered from the large number of installations that we've done, both residential and commercial. Obviously, you know, we forged ahead, tried to push through whatever barriers there were out there. Sometimes we were successful in knocking them down. Sometimes we've had to go around them and sometimes we've just been blocked.
But all of those are lessons learned. All of that is good information that we want to disseminate. And we disseminate that on The EV Project website and this slide just gives you—if you log onto theevproject.com, you'll see this first page that is shown on the left with the miles accumulated to date.
And then if you click on Documents which is along the lower bar, it will bring you to EV Project documents and you want to look for Lessons Learned Reports which are in the box on the right, the green box.
So helps—a little bit of help to navigate through the website. Again, go to the Home page, go to Documents and then on the Documents page, scroll down to Lessons Learned Reports. And what you will find there is a sampling of Lessons Learned Reports that have already been developed and are currently available.
And they range from discussions of demand charges—electrical demand charges for DC fast charging to things as simple as trying to unify signage and some analysis that Idaho has performed for us on things like driving and charging behavior and the impact of EVs—the early impact of EVs on the electric grids.
So those are there on the website. And I would encourage you to take a look at those and see what information we have there.
Additionally in the next few weeks, you will see some additional Lessons Learned Reports appear on the website, discussion of the need for commercial charging. As Jim showed in some of his data, a lot of people are quite content to charge at home and to only charge at home. And so there's questions about why do we need commercial charging. And we try and address some of that in this upcoming white paper.
Another white paper taking about pricing of commercial pricing. Historically charging has been free. There are, to date, a few chargers out there that have pricing associated with them. We will be launching for EV Project chargers middle of this month—the middle of July, excuse me—in the middle of July, pricing in Arizona, the chargers here and then they're rapidly moving the pricing to chargers throughout the country that are part of The EV Project.
And the idea there is to experiment with some pricing models to learn what the price elasticity is, what people are willing to pay for charging, where the value point is for them in order to try and provide a return on investment for the charger hosts who ultimately have to bear the cost of installing and operating these chargers.
Some discussions, then, about residential installation process and the commercial installation process, metering of energy, to the EVs and finally you'll be seeing something relatively soon on permitting cost.
And so what I'd like to do in the balance of the slides that I have is just touch on a few lessons learned topics, maybe a little bit of some preview of some things that you'll see in some of the upcoming Lessons Learned Reports.
So as we look at residential installations and specifically at permitting, you know, a great deal of work was done and a lot of attention put on permitting of chargers in residential space. Generally timeliness has not been a problem with respect to residential chargers, both from the standpoint of the permitting authorities have done a good job of trying to push these out very quickly.
And the people—the individuals buying vehicles have typically been fairly accommodating where there have been some delays in getting chargers installed and are capable and willing to use their Level 1 charge cord.
A majority of the permits are over-the-counter. The thing that's probably of greatest note is that permit fees vary really significantly. You can see in the chart here, we have a low shown in green in Tennessee of $7.50 which we'd love to see all the fees at that level. And a high in our San Francisco region—that's not the City of San Francisco but it's in that market area—of $500 for a residential permit.
So you can see that makes it very difficult to predict the cost of installation when the fee itself can be such a substantial percentage of the installation cost or not a percentage of the installation cost depending on whether—what part of the country you're in so more on that when the permitting fee white paper comes out but a bit of a heads up.
And with respect to just overall cost of residential installations, we get a lot of questions about this. You know, our average cost is running about $1375. But I have to qualify that. And that is that if we have an installation that is a very high cost, typically the individuals looking at that are opting out.
So we don't have a typical bell curve of installation cost. It's very much lopped off on the high cost end because people just simply say we're not going to do the installation if it's going to cost us $2000 or $3000 because we have to put in a new electric service.
On the low side, as much as we want to avoid it, the fact that everyone knows that we have a $1200 rebate or credit on our installation, there tend to be a lot of these that cluster around $1200. So our bell curve tends to be crunched up on those—the left side and lopped off on the right side and very much tends to focus around that $1200.
As we switch to a $400 residential installation credit, we're really eager to see what happens to this data. And actually we will probably, at that point, get better data because our $1200, in our opinion really does, for the vast majority of the installations, cover the installation cost.
The $400 will probably be a 50th percentile and there will be a number of those that are more costly but inexpensive enough that individuals want to go ahead with them. And there will be some that will be cheaper than that. So we'll keep you posted with how that goes but you can see the data to date here in this.
From a commercial lessons learned standpoint, a lot of work has been put in to the American's Disability with act—the Americans with Disability Act compliance. The photo you see here is a compliant charger. And it looks a little short. That's because it is in order to satisfy all the reach heights that are part of ADA.
Once you get past the design issues, the biggest issue then is on accessible parking spots. And some of the jurisdictions are requiring that we put in van-accessible parking spaces in front of these. Some are allowing us to do a normal parking spot.
And some are requiring an accessible route to the facility which is perhaps the most expensive part of this—the whole ADA compliance is to ensure that there's a wide, flat, smooth route to whatever the facility is where these chargers are located.
Additionally, while on the residential side, permits have not been a problem, they've been a significant issue on the commercial side. Some of the jurisdictions have required as much as a 30-day load study. So that means you have to instrument the facility, collect data for 30 days on the amount of power drawn by the facility, analyze that and submit that with your permit.
So by the time all of that takes place, that's probably 60 days to get 30 days' worth of data. And that just starts the permit process. In some locations—specifically San Diego—we are having to do some zoning reviews in order to put chargers on municipal property on street side locations if the charger is over 30 inches tall.
So, you know, a lot of bumps in the road on the commercial side that I would encourage you, if you are thinking about—when you're—in your Clean Cities coalition, doing some commercial installations. And certainly if you're looking at putting something on municipal property, have some long discussions with the permitting authorities.
They're very cooperative. They're really trying but they're a lot—there are a lot of regulations and ordinances that affect their ability to do these installations.
From a permitting cost perspective, showing the regions here in the left-hand column, this is some early data. So I put a number of permits that this covers and you can see it's relatively small numbers so this was taken early on in the deployment stage of the project.
But, again, Tennessee, from an average standpoint, is the lowest cost. San Diego area is up there in cost. You may remember the residential permit was San Francisco region was the highest. We're not doing substantial commercial installations in San Francisco so that's not listed here.
But generally, California, with material and wage and permit fees that the overall cost of installations in California are much higher. And as you see here the maximum permit fee was in the San Diego area at $821. But interestingly enough, the lowest was in Oregon at $14, although Tennessee was not far behind at $19.
Finally I'd like to talk a little bit about the demand charges. This is paying for the amount of power that you draw from the grid. And as we begin deployment of fast chargers, this has been a really significant issue for us as well as for the hosts of the chargers who, in most cases, end up paying the—for the power.
In some of our utility areas, the cost of energy and the cost of power is significant. So Southern California, again, tends to be the most expensive. And we see in some locations under commercial rates, energy cost as high as 25 cents per kilowatt-hour. So that means to put, let's say, 20 kilowatt-hours in a LEAF, that's going to be $5 just for the energy cost.
The real killer, though, is $25 per kilowatt. So if you charge at 50 kilowatts, you will have a monthly charge of $1250 for delivering that power. So this has been an issue where demand charges exist. And I've shown in the chart here utilities that have no demand charges. And so these are all ones where there's not an issue.
And if everything works well, these are issue—these are utilities with demand charges. And as you see, what we've done is calculated a monthly cost for demand, assuming a 50-kilowatt charge on LEAF at least once per month, lasting at least 15 minutes. And these are the kinds of costs that are involved with providing that charge.
So obviously, if fast charging is going to be pervasive, these kinds of things have to be dealt with. This is an area that on The EV Project we're exploring right now, as is the entire industry and the utilities as well, looking at how can we avoid having to pay and collect these kinds of charges.
So that's all I have to present today. There will be a lot more to come. We appreciate the opportunity that Linda's provided to use Clean Cities as a means of disseminating information. And I look forward to answering questions and encourage you to look at the website for The EV Project.
And if you're looking for where chargers are located within The EV Project, you can log onto the BLINK Network website and look at the map there and it will tell you where they are and what their status is.
So with that, I'll turn it back to you, Linda. And I think Jim and I are happy to answer questions.
LINDA BLUESTEIN: Thank you so much, Don. We really appreciate it. And this is just sort of an entree of lessons learned. We'll invite Don back to talk about more lessons learned as The EV Project progresses. And also we'll be asking Jim back to talk about more of the data that he's collecting and some of the analysis that they're going to be doing on the data collection at INL.
So I guess we'd like to get started with some Q&A. So I'd like to ask Sandra Loi to go ahead and—and also the operator to help us with phone-in questions and also the ones that have been issued by email.
SANDRA LOI: Sure, absolutely. Helene, can you go ahead and open up the lines?
Coordinator: At this time, if you would like to ask a question, please press star 1. Please be sure to clearly record your name. To withdraw your request, star 2. One moment please.
SANDRA LOI: Great, thank you. While we're waiting for our first—this is Sandra Loi from NREL. But while we're waiting for our first call-in, I do have a couple questions that came in online. And Jim, I think this one's probably for you. It came in while you were doing your presentation.
We had a question about what type data loggers you're using such as the make and model. Jim?
JIM FRANCFORT: Sorry, I had mute on there.
SANDRA LOI: That's okay.
JIM FRANCFORT: That's dependent on the vehicle. We have—with the General Motors, we're using the OnStar. Nissan, I believe it's Hitachi. ECOtality has their own system. Chrysler has another onboard system. Ford has another. We also use a variety of other third party data loggers too, depending on the vehicle technology.
SANDRA LOI: Great. Thank you, Jim. And another question that came in is, is every EV car sold in the U.S. included in this project? Or how is an EV car selected to be included in this project.
DON KARNER: Yes, this is Don. I'll go ahead and answer that. We negotiated some specific ZIP code areas with DOE when we established The EV Project contract. And we communicate those ZIP codes to Nissan dealers and Volt dealers.
And so for Nissan, historically they've had what they call the LEAF Customer Journey which was an online journey that someone could log on and they could actually get to the point of ordering their vehicle. The only thing they had to do at the dealership was actually go in and sign the order papers.
That LEAF Customer Journey directed them to our EV Project website where they could apply for The EV Project. And we had—have a few conditions like, you know, you need to own the property that we're installing the charger on. You need to plan to be there for the duration of the project.
And some simple things that just kind of screen people to make sure that we weren't putting a charger in and then just a few months later we were not going to be able to get data from it.
So with the Chevrolet Volt, those sales are much more dealer-centric. And so going into the dealer, the sales people there are aware of the project and will direct people that are in the ZIP code to log on and apply for The EV Project if they're in our ZIP codes.
Nissan is tending to go away from the LEAF Customer Journey and much more to a dealer-centric program. And so depending on which dealership you go into with a LEAF, you may be directed back to the LEAF Customer Journey or they may just deal with it all right there in the dealership like the Chevrolet Volt does.
But the bottom line is if you're in one of our ZIP codes, we offer you participation. If you pass the screening process, which is some pretty simple kinds of things, we offer you participation. And then we'll send somebody out to give you an estimate of the cost of installation.
And if you like the estimate and the—what you would—you, as the participant would pay would be net of the credit that we provide for installation and, of course, the EVSE itself is provided for free.
If you like all that, we ask you to sign what we call the Residential Participation Agreement which just is a document that says, you know, we can use data that we collect from the charger. You'll continue to use the charger for the duration of the project and some other legalese kinds of things.
If you're happy with that, you sign it. We come out and install your charger and we're good to go.
SANDRA LOI: Great. Thank you so much. Helene, do we have some calls on the line?
COORDINATOR: I show no questions from the phone.
SANDRA LOI: Okay. I'll go ahead and continue with some of our online questions. This is for Jim or Don. "Could you comment on public usage of the function of price? Which areas have a price and which areas are free?" This is part one of this question.
And then there's another question, "If PP&E has no demand charges, are there any barriers to fast charging? What are some other costs associated with fast charging?"
DON KARNER: Okay, so with respect to Level 2 and pricing, there are some chargers out there on the 350Green system and on the Coulomb system that pricing has been implemented for. I don't have any data on those chargers as to how usage has been impacted versus ones that are free. Obviously as long as there's free, there will probably tend to be clustering around those chargers.
You know, as we look going down the road, it's—and talking to the participants from a commercial perspective that are participating as charger hosts in The EV Project, while they see benefit in having the charger there, other than cash, overall they want to see a return on investment.
And they realize that this is very early on in the deployment of electric vehicles and deployment of charge infrastructure. And specifically that's why are providing them the charger at no cost and providing an installation credit. But in the long term, they're definitely looking at a return on investment. And that return has to include some payment for access to the charger.
So, you know, we are—as I mentioned earlier—implementing a payment system across our entire network of chargers this summer. We'll start mid-July in Arizona and then roll out to the rest of the network. And we will obviously be looking at how does that impact people's use of the charge network.
And we're very cognizant of the fact that people have an alternative to just charge at home. And the energy costs at home are quite cheap. There are very, very few utility jurisdictions that charge a demand charge at home. I personally happen to be in one with Arizona Public Service but that's highly unusual for there to be residential demand charge.
So, you know, rates at home for overnight charging at home are typically the cheapest that they are anywhere. And so with commercial charging, because the rates inherently are higher and the costs are higher, we know that the price for charging has to be kept low and that there have to be other value chains that ascribe to commercial charging in order to provide a return on investment for the host.
So some of that is the additional boots across the threshold for retail stores and we've worked with gathering data with retailers like Kohl's to see the increase in the average time that an EV owner that's using the charge infrastructure spends in the store versus their average customer. And so there's some benefit there.
There are other benefits that we've tried to build in to commercial charging that people will start to see over time that include advertising. So putting wraps on the chargers that obviously advertise either products or services and displaying advertising on the interactive touch screens that are associated with the chargers.
So there's a lot to learn here as to how we can provide an acceptable rate of return for a commercial charger host in order to assure that as vehicle concentrations rise, as vehicles move to new cities that commercial charging infrastructure will deploy virally by itself, because there is a return on investment for the charger host.
And that's really what our objective is, is to try and build models that these charger hosts can see that will have them make the investment in charge infrastructure as vehicles roll out to all different cities across the United States.
The second question with respect to DC fast charging, you know, there are a lot of costs associated with fast charging, not the least of which is just the cost of the charger itself, the cost of the power supply to the charger because typically you don't find a spare 50 or 60 kilowatts of power available in the existing service that's provided to the facility that you're at.
Many times that requires that you establish a new utility service so there are some construction charges associated with the utility installing that service. And then there are monthly charges for the meter, monthly charges for the energy and potentially monthly charges for the demand.
Obviously then maintenance of the charger is another expense. There's a potential for vandalism as well as just routine operations and maintenance costs that drive up the cost of fast charging.
Now fast charging is very convenient. And our a priori assumptions here are that you can charge—or the payment for access to a charger can be more than it is for Level 2 charging. Exactly what that is and how much it is will be something that hopefully we'll gain some insight into over the duration of The EV Project as we try pricing.
Right now, pricing or the access to our fast chargers is free and will stay that way until later this year when—after we've implemented pricing on Level 2 charging, we will implement pricing on DC fast charge.
So I'm sorry that was a really long, long answer to the two questions so I'll stop.
SANDRA LOI: No, thank you, that was really great. Operator, do we have anyone on the phone?
COORDINATOR: We do. We have a question on the phone from Mike Cross. Your line is open.
MIKE CROSS: Hi, I'm Mike Cross from the Dayton International Airport in Dayton, Ohio. And I was wondering if you were going to offer your program in Ohio.
DON KARNER: It's Don Karner again. Unfortunately, through The EV Project we are not. But ECOtality and its BLINK Network is something that we're in the business of deploying everywhere in the country.
So, you know, our sales people are always looking for opportunities to deploy hardware on a retail basis outside of The EV Project. And I would encourage you to give us a call, log on the website, whatever and, you know, some of our people would sure be happy to get back to you.
Mike Cross: Is there any incentive involved?
DON KARNER: Well, you know, these are sales guys. So, you know, there's no EV Project incentive involved but there are, depending on the size of the deal and that type of thing, there's always opportunities to try and work either services or hardware into a deal to kind of launch in a new city.
MIKE CROSS: Well, that—we're currently investigating the opportunities. And hopefully your study will show that there are opportunities for commercial development that may be associated with our airport.
DON KARNER: Yes, we are doing some deployments at airports. And we'll definitely have some data that—for other—for yourself and for others that are out there with airport authorities. As we gather that data, we will kind of pull that together into a little vignette that we can look at specifically, you know, what are the benefits, what are the issues of airport deployments of EV charging. So stand by, yes, we definitely have a focus on that.
MIKE CROSS: Okay, you've got—I know that—Sacramento International Airport, was that yours?
DON KARNER: No, that's probably a Coulomb unit because we're not—with The EV Project, we're not in Sacramento.
MIKE CROSS: Okay. What airports may I call?
DON KARNER: I'll tell you what, why don't we take this one offline? And I will get you some information on where we're at airports—if you just email me at email@example.com.
Coordinator: Our next question comes from Case Devaque. Your line is open.
CASE DEVAQUE: Hi, I had a question if you had any thought of getting data from military use such as possibly use for Army posts or Navy bases?
JIM FRANCFORT: Yes, outside The EV Project, we have a task to instrument, I believe it's 600 vehicles that are federal fleet vehicles and understand where they operate. It's one thing to say a vehicle goes, let's say, 8000 miles a year. Is that 8000 miles in one week or is it 10 or 20 miles per day, never exceeding, let's say, 50 miles?
So we are actually in the—currently doing that with all federal fleets but we do have some emphasis on Department of Defense bases. So we are doing that also.
CASE DEVAQUE: All right, thank you.
COORDINATOR: Again, to ask a question, please press star 1 and record your name. To withdraw your question, star 2. Our next party did not get their name recorded. If you did queue up for a question, I will open your line now. Please check your mute button.
MATTHEW: Do you hear me?
DON KARNER: Yes.
MATTHEW: Hi, this is Matthew with Detroit Edison in Detroit Michigan. And with regards to the airport usage, we actually have some chargers that are deployed at DTW in two of the different long-term parking decks. So we would be more than happy to share some of the information on that as well with who was interested.
DON KARNER: Great. Thank you for that.
MATTHEW: They're actually some of our most used chargers out of everything that we've deployed.
COORDINATOR: Our next question comes from Colin Shepherd. Your line is open.
COLIN SHEPHERD: Hi, there. I have a question for Jim. I'm wondering if you all have done any analysis that looks at the impact on range and vehicle performance over, you know, different terrains and different driving behaviors and other conditions that might impact that. And whether you had published anything on that or if you are planning to?
JIM FRANCFORT: We have done that with other vehicles in the past. The major focus on this is really the infrastructure. We do have other fleet vehicles that we do have GIS information. For The EV Project, we don't have second-by-second data. But we know where it starts, we know where it ends per trip. So it's a little difficult to do that.
We do have other parts of the advance for the testing activity where we're doing vehicle-intense—I think we've put ours at 300,000 miles on vehicles in about three years and that allows us to capture that kind of information. And usually after we get a wealth of data, we go back, sometimes as simple as looking at temperature. But we do have GIS where we looked at vehicles in the past.
So going forward, yes. Not part of The EV Project.
COLIN SHEPHERD: Thanks.
Coordinator: We have one more question queued up, one moment. This question comes from Mark Larson. Your line is open.
MARK LARSON: Hi, thank you, very interesting seminar. I was wondering if you all are looking at any of the tax policy issues relative to state excise taxes. We are having that discussion in the West. And I know there's models out there like VMT. They're—the discussion comes up that electrical charges are already being paid sales tax.
How are you all going to eat that elephant given declining value with traditional fuels and sharing the highways?
DON KARNER: This is Don. From the perspective of The EV Project, one of the white papers that we have—or Lessons Learned white papers deals with what people are doing, what's going on. And, you know, we're in more of an observation mode than we are in influence with respect to The EV Project.
As a company separate from that, we have thoughts that, you know, we'd be happy to share with folks about, you know, trying to implement that as simply as possible. And, you know, certainly taxation is a public policy. And, you know, that's for people other than for us to decide what's appropriate.
But given that someone does then want to tax an electric vehicle, there are ways of doing it that are complex and costly and there are ways of doing it that are far cheaper and simple. And so we always vie for the simplistic road from a technical perspective and have, in fact, provided some feedback at times as ECOtality, not as The EV Project, in the Pacific Northwest and other jurisdictions about how one might implement a system to do that.
And I think—and the magnitude, when one is looking at vehicles that get an effective 100 to 150 miles per gallon, you need to really be conscious of the fact that small amounts of taxation can have an incredibly large impact on the cost per mile for operating these vehicles and can have a far greater negative influence than one might suspect.
So, again, a lot of our efforts really revolve around just trying to make people aware of the technical issues so that the decision makers that deal with public policy have a full deck of technical cards to make their decisions with.
JIM FRANCFORT: Yes, this is Jim. I might add my personal opinion. It does not necessarily reflect the views and findings of the Department of Energy. But my personal opinion is why don't we help the economics of this. Let's wait until we get a million or 2 million of them before we figure out how to tax them.
MARK LARSON: Yes, it's very hard to close the door then but thank you for your answers, gentlemen.
COORDINATOR: I show no further questions.
SANDRA LOI: Great. Thank you so much. So a couple more from the Web and Don I don't know if you already answered this but one of the questions I'm seeing here is about tracking demographics. And someone is asking if you track demographics of the residential customers that are purchasing these vehicles.
DON KARNER: To some extent we do. And we have a part of the project that also looks at doing some surveys that will assist with that. We really haven't jumped deeply into that end of the pool yet because, you know, it's still very early in the data collection phase of the project.
Typically what we'll do is look at data, see what the data's telling us and then look at are there some demographic reasons? Are there some other reasons that are driving that data in the direction that we're seeing? And there we'll use surveys and other tools to try and make those determinations.
SANDRA LOI: Okay, great. Thank you. Don, this is another one for you. Were those actual or estimated demand charges that you were showing in your slides?
DON KARNER: Well, the demand charges are codified in rate schedules for the utilities. And what I did was took the actual rate schedules—and this is for commercial rates, now—and assumed that the charge was done at 50 kilowatts because that's what a Nissan LEAF which is currently the highest power fast charge or—for a vehicle in The EV Project.
And that, you know, you just multiply 50 kilowatts times the demand charge. And that's the monthly charge.
Now I might also add that in some of the jurisdictions, once you hit that demand charge that stays in effect for 12 months regardless of what you might do the next month. So it effectively is a year's commitment each time you hit a new peak. That's kind of unusual—or not un—I wouldn't say unusual but it's not in very many jurisdictions but it is in some.
And so for Clean Cities folks, where you're looking at deploying a fast charger, my—what I would encourage is the real lesson learned is get with your utility, understand what rate that's going to be on and the impact of that on potential costs of operating the fast charger because each utility is different.
They have different rate structures. And you need to understand for your utility and the location that you're going to install that charger what the potential impacts are.
Sandra Loi: That's great. Thank you. Another question here, "Regarding the permit fees discussed, are these permit fees per charger or per project?" And second part, "Regarding ADA compliance, have any inspectors raised the issue of cables on the ground as an obstacle to access routes obstructing disabled or handicapped?"
DON KARNER: Okay, so the first question, were the permit fees per charger or per project?
SANDRA LOI: Project, right.
DON KARNER: And it's per charger, okay. So residential, you're typically only installing one charger at home. So that's pretty straightforward. In commercial applications, where we install multiple chargers, we are dividing that by two—by the number of chargers. So that is on a per charger basis for the commercial applications.
And that does reduce permit costs in a lot of cases. In fact, some of the Tennessee things that you saw were from multiple site installations driving the cost down. So that would, again, be on a per charger basis.
And I'm sorry, the second part of the question was...
JIM FRANCFORT: A—where...
DON KARNER: Oh, ADA and...
JIM FRANCFORT: Cables.
DON KARNER: ...cables on the ground. Yes, so, you know, you can't take credit for accessibility to the charger or an accessible route to the facility if there's any kind of a barrier. Now, as far as accessibility to the charger, if someone is in a wheelchair and they're accessing the charger and they're connecting the charger to the vehicle, you know, that's the activity that they're undertaking.
There then need to be an accessible route when they're done for them to get from the position they were in when they were connecting the vehicle to the facility if that's a requirement for that particular jurisdiction.
And, you know, ADA is promulgated on a—at a federal level but it's enforced at a very local level and so some of this gets down to just the inspector that you're working with or the reviewer that's reviewing your permit.
And so it's—and that's one of the lessons learned is that it's very difficult to draw general conclusions as to what you're going to need to do so it drives the cost of installations for no other reason than one has to either plan for the worst, the maximum set of requirements, or there's a lengthy negotiation process where you try and understand what the permitting authority is going to want and ultimately come to some agreement that results in the issuance of a permit.
And all that takes time and costs money
SANDRA LOI: Okay, great. Thank you so much. Operator, is there anyone else on the phone?
COORDINATOR: Again, if you'd like to ask a question over the phone lines, please press star then 1 and record your first and last name when prompted.
SANDRA LOI: I guess while we're waiting—we'll see if we have any more phone questions—but I think we're going go ahead and start wrapping up. Thank you everyone for participating today. If you have additional questions or things that were not answered today, please feel free to reach out to myself, Sandra Loi, or to Linda Bluestein or Don Karner or Jim Francfort. We've put out their contact information. Feel free to contact myself, and I'm happy to forward that along.
As Linda said, we will be posting the recording and the slides presented today on the Clean Cities website. If you visit www.cleancities.energy.gov and click on the header, the Toolbox header, and you'll see Education and Webinars. And we'll have an archive in there with this information from today.
Linda, did you want to close out with a few words? Anything else for today?
LINDA BLUESTEIN: Sure, I'd just like to thank Jim Francfort from INL very much and also Don Karner from ECOtality. Really appreciate all the attendees who hung in here all this time.
Just wanted to mention that we've updated the model permit on our website. So please go check that out on the AFDC website, and so Sandra will be posting the information—the presentation has the Web link to that. So please check that out as soon as possible.
And we look forward to putting on and hosting the next quarterly Webinar in the fall. And we'll hopefully have your participation then. Thank you.