Charging Infrastructure Micro Climate Process and Data Collection Webinar (Text Version)
This is a text version of the video for the Charging Infrastructure Micro Climate Process and Data Collection webinar presented on June 23, 2010, by Stephen Schey, eTec; and Jim Francfort, Idaho National Laboratory.
LINDA BLUESTEIN: This is Linda Bluestein with the U.S. Department of Energy Clean Cities program, and I want to welcome you to our second quarterly Webinar. We kicked this series of Webinars off three months ago to be able to address some of the issues and questions that people are having particularly within our Clean Cities coalitions about electric vehicles and getting communities ready for the necessary infrastructure to deal with electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid vehicles.
Today, we have sort of a follow-on to our first conference call, our first quarterly, which was an overview and talked a lot about the codes and standards and issues that are coming up very early in some of the cities and also with some of the codes and standards organizations.
But continuing on, Don Karner, last time—he's the president and CEO of the ECOtality—mentioned some things about getting communities ready. And one of the things is micro-climating. So we decided to follow on to that theme and include a session this time for this Webinar on micro-climating.
And today, we have Steve Schey with ECOtality, and he's the director of stakeholder services for the company. And as you know, ECOtality was eTec, and eTec was one of the major awardees in the electrification grants and has already started working with several communities throughout the United States.
And part of the reason we're having them on this call is to share some of their initial experiences working with communities. Steve will talk about that, and following Steve, we'll have Jim Francfort, who's the principal investigator for advanced vehicle testing at Idaho National Laboratory.
If you haven't been to Jim's Web site, it's an enormous wealth of information. It's on advanced vehicles and can give you real-life operating information and statistics about those vehicles.
So I want to welcome Steve and have him kick off the meeting with his presentation on micro-climating.
COORDINATOR: Excuse me, Linda. I just...
LINDA BLUESTEIN: Yes.
COORDINATOR: ...need to remind the parties that the call is being recorded, and if they do have any objections, they may disconnect at this time. And you may begin. I'm sorry.
LINDA BLUESTEIN: Thank you.
JIM FRANCFORT: This is Jim Francfort. I actually worked for Nixon in the '70s, and that didn't turn out so well when I was recorded, so I'm not sure we should do this presentation, Steve.
Anyway, my name is Jim Francfort. I'm with the Idaho National Lab. I'm going to do a couple of slides in the beginning. Steve will be doing a fair amount of slides, and then I'll do some of the data-collection slides.
Slide number two here, hopefully. So we're going to kind of go ove—just as a basis to the advantage of eco-testing activity—who's involved. This is kind of the base activity for a lot of work we've done. The micro-climate is about the EV Project, which is—Steve will get into the details of that.
Then I'll come back and talk about the rationale for data collections and quickly some examples of what it can tell you. And then a little more about the EV Project–specific data collection and just some of the other activities that have been going on also.
And there will be a Web page at the end of this. I'll give you an address, and the presentation is posted on that already.
Next slide. Okay, so slide 3: the AVTA. It's a Department of Energy program. It's part of the Vehicle Technologies Program. So Idaho National Lab and eTec, which has been renamed ECOtality, are the primary participants. We've got over 100 different fleets and organizations as testing partners.
And the basic program has two goals. Primary target areas for goals: One is to do the feedback to the modelers, the R&D programs, the vehicle manufacturers, and also for fleet managers and other early adopters like Clean Cities coalition participants, which are the other target area for our research findings.
And that kind of philosophy of partnerships is something that's carried on with the EV Project. And looking at the background, lots of plug-ins, lots of hybrids, neighborhood electric vehicles, hydrogen, full-size EVs, which of course are coming back—most of that was done in the '90s—and then urban EVs, which is a smaller class of full sized.
And it's actually—I looked yesterday—there has actually been about 14 million miles accumulated now, and it's actually at 98 different models, so my week-ago slide is dated.
Slide number five. So I'm going to turn this over to Steve.
STEVE SCHEY: Good morning. Just a little bit of background for me: Like many of us at ECOtality, I was involved with the rollout of the EV1 about 14/15 years ago now. And I was involved in the establishment of infrastructure in the Phoenix and Tucson areas at that time.
And as many of us in the projects, we were disappointed to see the electric vehicles disappear. At that time, we at ECOtality changed our focus to DC fast charging of industrial fork trucks and ground-supporting equipment. And we've been doing that for the last 14 years. We are all very excited to see the change in the political environment and the commercial environment to restore electric vehicles.
We're very excited to be a part of the EV Project and to be leading this project. As you can see on this slide, it is now up to a $230 million project with the announcement we had just last week about the expansion.
The purpose of this project really is to plan out an infrastructure, to build that infrastructure, to study the results of usage of that infrastructure, and then to find out what lessons have we learned as a result of this whole process.
The project gives us a tremendous number amount of resources to be used to—for that testing purpose—so that we can learn from this overall process.
There are seven regions currently involved in the EV Project, and that involves 13 different cities.
When we took a look at the resources that are required by the EV Project and what we are able to provide, we—and looking at the schedule, there is a very fast process to install these—this equipment in the ground. So we looked at what process are we going to use in order to plan this, install it, test it, and then evaluate it.
And we came up with what we call the micro-climate process. And I'll be spending more time on each individual area.
But micro-climate really is an integrated program for the advancement of electric transportation.
Our process involves—in each one of our market areas, we establish a local area manager. And we picked a person in the area that is familiar with the area, familiar with the political environment, the economic environment, the physical environment in order to start our overall process.
The first task then is to understand and develop an advisory group of stakeholders in that area. We could easily have said that the resources of the EV Project are—belong to ECOtality, and we will decide where they go. However, our focus has always been to establish a collaborative effort.
In some areas of the market, areas a significant amount of work was done in advance of us and in some areas not so much. But our desire is to organize this group of stakeholders and gain the input and expertise of people in the area already to go forward with the plans.
Following that, we conduct a current assessment of both the political and the physical environment. We involve a three-step process of implementing documentation with the stakeholder groups who actually plan the location for the EVSE, integrate the deployment plans with the automotive manufacturers who are part of the EV Project as well, develop the soft infrastructure. We'll talk about that in a minute. And actually conduct installation of the assets and following that, and while we're doing that, evaluate the legislative regulatory recommendations and also focus strongly on utility concerns.
So that's basically an overview of the micro-climate process. As part of this project, we are now involved in the following geographic areas. In Washington State—the Greater Seattle Area, involving most of the major cities around Seattle; Oregon—the area from Portland, Eugene, Corvallis and Salem; California—San Diego and Los Angeles; Arizona are Phoenix and Tucson; and Tennessee is Chattanooga, Knoxville, and Nashville; as well as Washington, D.C.
Part of our project also involves installing DC fast chargers and transportation corridors. So we're looking at the ability to—for an all-electric vehicle to transit between Eugene, Oregon, all the way up to the Canadian border; I-5 from San Diego to Los Angeles; from Phoenix to Tucson; and then the three cities of Tennessee: Chattanooga to Knoxville, to Nashville, and to Chattanooga again.
So we cover a wide diversity of geographic areas. And part of the project is to evaluate infrastructure, and this gives us widely the differing demographics of the United States, including a difference in political environment, in public awareness and geography as well as climate. So it gives us a lot of different aspects to study as a result of this project.
The equipment that we're deploying as part of this project involves 5,700 Nissan LEAFs in our market areas. I would mention that Nissan and Chevrolet are partners in the project. The project is not part of the purchase of the vehicles. The participants in the project will need to purchase or lease the vehicles on their own.
But it does involve 5,700 Nissan LEAFs, 2,600 Chevrolet Volts, 8,300 level two—that is a 240-Volt AC, 6.6-kilowatt charger residential in flee— 5,500 level-two commercial charging systems in the market areas. Addition of 125 level two in the Oakridge National Laboratory Solar-Assisted Charging Project, 750 level-two public charging systems that would be in publicly owned or municipally owned locations, and then the DC fast chargers, which are 480-Volt AC 40–60 kilowatt chargers, 260 of those in the market areas basically designed as support, safety backup systems, safety net and other reasons you might want to do a fast charge as well as 50 DC fast chargers in the corridors.
So there's a tremendous amount of resources that need to be developed in a fairly short period of time. As we look at where should they be deployed for level two, we look at where should they be going? The micro-climate process will help tell us.
But essentially, where people shop, where they play, where they gather, and where their vehicle sits for one to three hours. During that time period, you can get a substantial return on charge during that time.
The level-two publicly available charging systems allow for effectively expanding the range of the electric vehicle for unscheduled stops or to provide comfort to reduce range anxiety. We understand and expect that businesses will want to install these systems because it'll attract more customers, especially those who are interested in electric vehicles. And it also then advertises, provides advertising advantages for the business as well as providing revenue.
The DC fast chargers: Where do they go, and what is the philosophy behind the DC fast charging?
With the LEAF, the Nissan LEAF, about 50% of the battery is restored in about 23 minutes. So you gain a substantial recharge in a short period of time.
So where do they go? Where energy is needed fast, where people will stay for a relatively short period of time, where businesses may want to do a fast turnover of people: rest stops, convenience stores, existing gasoline stations. So within 10 or 15 minutes, a substantial recharge is achieved, and the customer is then on their way.
Planning process in each one of our areas as I mentioned is a three-step approach. The foundation starts with the deployment guidelines, builds after that into the ten-year plan, and then finally into the micro-climate process.
So we start with the planning in Phase 1, which develops, then the deployment guidelines. In organizing the regional stakeholders, the area managers look to see who in the area is already involved or has a stake in the outcome of the electric vehicles. They could include government officials, permitting people, regulators, certainly the electric utilities, universities, enthusiasts who've already converted vehicles, and any others that we find in the area that are very interested in the outcome.
So we organize them together to develop the first stage, which are the deployment guidelines. The deployment guidelines really take a look at what is necessary for planning before you put the first charger in the ground. And there are a lot of questions that should be addressed, such as, "What are accessibility requirements for electric vehicle charging? What might be a lighting responsibility? What type of signage should be employed?
In a lot of cases, we're looking at what—how do we talk in common terms to make sure we're speaking the same language?
So all those things are addressed in the deployment guidelines, and that is the first phase. In each of our market areas with the exception of the two ones we just added, Los Angeles and Washington, D.C., we have completed the guidelines process. Those deployment guidelines are now available on our Web site.
One of the other outcomes from the planning phase is developing this cooperation. We have—in organizing the stakeholders—in assigning and working out a task—the individuals get together and develop a cooperative effort—teamwork and synergy—that really helps in moving forward looking at the next couple of stages.
This is the example of the guidelines that were completed in the Oregon area, and some of the features there, signage, questions about what you see on the right is the permitting process that's required.
In a lot of questions, this is not trivial. A lot of effort needs to go into planning for installation of equipment. So we try to identify in the guidelines what's involved with that. We also as part of the guidelines spend a lot of time working with permitting authorities in each one of the areas to try to understand the requirements and seek methods for streamlining that process.
The next phase then involves a long-range plan to look at what's involved in a particular area for the next ten years. The philosophy behind doing this is that we recognize that although there are significant resources in the EV Project, they may not be sufficient to fully develop and cover a large geographic area.
For example, the City of Phoenix or the Metropolitan Area of Phoenix contains about 21 or 22 individual cities. And we know that we cannot provide full EVSE coverage for that entire area.
But the long-range plan does take a look ten years down the road: What would the penetration of electric vehicles be so that we can set up a long-range plan to look at infrastructure needs over the next ten-year period?
We also take a look at the National Household Travel Survey, which really informs us on how people are using their vehicles. One of the important things is an average person takes about 3.5 to 4 trips per day—a trip would be to work and home, but there's two other trips in the course of the day that someone might take.
And where do they go? Those destinations would be areas of interest for EVSE placement.
We also then take a look from national surveys and national projections down to the local market areas to develop the local projections for the next ten years. Marry that in with local information such as traffic studies, characteristics, geography and interest to come up with the local long-range plan over a ten-year period.
Again, this effort then provides local support and synergy in helping to design and develop what the assets should look like and what the plan should be over the next ten years.
This process for the EV Project is now in process at each one of our market areas. This slide shows some of the beginning stages for Oregon as an example. Long-range plan outcomes would be proposed locations for DC fast charging for corridors and for range extension as well as densities for level two in general terms based on population and the reasons we just mentioned.
So long-range planning then will end up with wide demographics. We anticipate over the next ten years that the users of electric vehicles will encompass all demographics. With the large numbers of automotive manufacturers that are coming into the market with their electric vehicles and their plug-in hybrid vehicles as well as second generation. Second—used vehicles—we anticipate in ten years that all demographics will be using or will have access to electric vehicles, so the ten-year plan really can focus on the entire metropolitan area.
In the near term, we go into the micro-climate process in planning the Phase 3. This involves not only taking a look at the long-range plan for input for the initial phase. It looks at what resources are currently available for implementation into the infrastructure plan and then also to develop guidelines for that infrastructure deployment within the areas that we're currently working.
So the input is provided into one of—into each of our market areas, and they took a look then in that market area through the stakeholder groups looking into, say, the first year or two into this long-range plan looking at local demographics of the early adopters: Where are they likely to live, to work, to play—all those things that we talked about for selecting sites for the EVSE location?
We also at the same time are out soliciting input from local retailers and the businesses in the area to inquire of their interest in hosting these locations.
So the planning process comes together. We are also involved with looking at some national accounts—organizations that have facilities in a lot of different locations to identify those that may want to participate in each one of these market areas.
So a lot of the input, the planning, the interest we inquire of enthusiasts and people who are interested is where they would like to see infrastructure be developed.
So trying to find as many resources and tap into the interest and abilities of a lot of different people to plan the location of the early EVSE in public.
Electric utilities obviously are very important in this planning process, especially when we start looking at some of the DC fast charging because of the load on the electric grid.
Electric utilities are also very interested in where the early adopters and the innovators and buyers of the EV will be located because that again could create some stress on their planning and their local grids.
So the micro-climate plan is proceeding in each one of our market areas basically in parallel with the long-range plan. What we are doing in densities then is try to refine densities into smaller geographic areas. Essentially, what you see here are quarter-mile radius circles. We might identify that a particular area density ought to be eight level-two chargers per square mile. What does that turn into with respect to finding the locations for that?
So we refine that down to a quarter-mile area. Then part of the roadmap then comes into place when we actually go out and solicit retailers to sign a letter of intent or memorandum of understanding that this is indeed a good location and that they are interested in providing that service to their customers.
So we are involved now in—and this is, well, where we are in our market areas soliciting input from retailers. We've had several come forward and tell us that they are interested. We've had several cities come forward with ideas and say these are locations we anticipate would be good locations, so all of that is in process now with tremendous number—amount of support in each one of the areas.
The roadmap really then ends up with a retailer agreement understanding the benefits of installing the charging system at their location as well as the cities understanding the benefits of employing publicly available.
That then turns to commercial contracts as we work through the site assessment, getting contractor quotes, installation contracts and retailer agreements, going through the permitting process and actually accomplishing the installation effort.
Throughout this process of planning from the early stages of looking at where, organizing the stakeholders, where does all this equipment go? All the way through the point of actually getting it installed in the field. We're involved in a lot of other areas in support of the local effort.
First-responder training is one of the items that we worked on in the '90s with the EV1 and the other vehicles that were out. It's not necessarily our responsibility to identify what that training should be. However, we find that we can facilitate that. Through our stakeholder groups, we can work through the local fire marshals and the local authorities to assist in developing and promoting first-responder training.
One of the areas I mentioned that is of particular interest to utilities and I have a slide later on for utility special interest is how do we notify and how are utilities notified when residential and commercial EVSE is installed.
As you'll note on our project, we are not installing any level-one equipment in publicly available areas. Level-one equipment that is 120 Volt AC has such a long recharge time that we don't see that as particularly important for the long term in public. However, when you start looking at level-two and DC fast charging level-two equipment basically at 6.6 kilowatts and DC fast charging at 40 to 60 kilowatts, that unit then becomes significant for the electric utilities.
One of the areas of interest that they have and concerns they might have is a term called clustering where, because I purchased a lease and I'm driving it, my neighbor sees that. We talk about it. He's interested. He buys. The neighbor next, she buys, and pretty soon you have three or four people in the same transformer maybe using the equipment, and at 6.6 kilowatt each, that may stress out the local grid.
So obviously, utilities are interested in identifying and knowing when that might happen.
I briefly touched on streamlining the permitting process in each one of our regions as well. Typically, for a permit for service, a contractor would apply for the permit. In some cases, the permitting authority may require drawings or other technical supportive information. Then the—if the utility is involved in setting special meters or upgrades—the whole process of installation of the EVSE can take a significant amount of time.
We are interested for those installations that appear to be relatively simple that we would like to find ways that we could streamline that permitting process, and so we are working with numerous permitting authorities in each one of our regions to try to identify what their requirements are, what would be acceptable for them in the long term for streamlining that process to reduce the time significantly. Reducing the time reducers contractor onsite efforts and reduces costs.
As part of this project, we also have the opportunity to do some special projects involving Smart Grid efforts to man response. We're looking at that. For solar-assisted charging, we have projects on that.
And there are other special projects and special testing that we are allowed to do as part of this project as well.
And our support of the automotive manufacturers—we integrate our schedule with their schedule, with their rollout schedule. As you can imagine, each one of the automotive manufacturers has a marketing plan to build crescendo toward the actual release of their vehicles. And so we are supporting that as well with the release of our equipment and timing of our equipment in public to match their crescendo. We see this as one of the synergistic efforts. And we also require them to do training of their dealers in our market areas.
We're also looking at public education, a very strong effort as part of this soft infrastructure. In the past, I remember in the 1990s I was out at elementary schools with my EV1 and my charger showing kids all about the electric vehicle so that they could go home and tell their parents how exciting this was. So we're very interested in working in the areas as well.
As we talk to the utilities and as we've worked with the numerous utilities in each one of the market areas, we find out that there are basically seven categories of interest that they have at this point that provide us an effort to try to coordinate the efforts of a lot of utilities looking forward. Local good reliability, clustering—I already talked about that.
Key shaping strategies: How about the special electric vehicle rates? Time of use of day rates, demand response, smart metering—all of those things are part of that overall strategy, and we are working with the utilities on those efforts.
Regulatory activities, excuse me—we are involved with looking at what legislation is in place and what regulatory activities are currently in place for the EVSE penetration. We're involved in those. Utilities are looking ahead for carbon mitigation, revenue strategies. They're interested in public perception and jobs, grid support activities, and finally getting down to perhaps much longer term, informed customer relations, real -time pricing, and efforts in that area.
Overall then, what we're looking at for this project and why we're doing a lot of what we're doing is really the lessons learned, the data collection, evaluation, and that in charging stations, as we plan the effort, how effective was our process and planning. How effective were we on selecting the location? How are the—how is the equipment being utilized in public? When is it being used? How long is it being used?
All of those come back to evaluate. Did we do—did we plan out this process well? Are people's behavior as we expected they would be? Or what did we learn from this? Did we find out that places we thought were obvious choices and end up not being used at all? Areas that we thought maybe were marginal may have full utilization.
So we're really open to evaluating exactly what comes about it as a result of this and what lessons did we learn. Maybe part way through the process we find out that some equipment is not being used at all, and we move it as part of the process.
Lessons learned for electric utilities: What are we learning there, home grid use versus publicly available?
For the vehicles, again what we're looking at is, are the vehicles being used?
How might behavior change from the beginning of a process when someone takes a vehicle in the first couple months to the end of the project: the behavior difference between plug-in hybrids for the extended range electric vehicle versus the battery electric.
I want to emphasize that throughout this process we are very interested in the privacy of individual information. So we are not releasing anything that might indicate an individual's personal behavior but rather looking at 5,700 LEAF drivers and 2,600 Volt drivers. That gives you a substantial database from which you can draw some conclusions.
We also see this having direct impact for Clean Cities. And we would suggest strongly that when Clean Cities look to install charging systems in various locations that data-collection systems being employed so that you can actually go back and look to evaluate the placement of that equipment. Was it placed in locations where people are actually going to use it, and how effective is that utilization, and how—what do you find?
Also again for vehicles, we strongly suggest that data be collected on the vehicle.
Is this electric vehicle actually a replacement for an internal-combustion engine, or is it just in excess and being used marginally?
We know that there is behavior change that is required in order to implement electric vehicles, but the data-collection capability really gives you information that could be used then for that evaluation.
At this point, I'm going to turn it back over to Jim, and he can talk about the data collection.
JIM FRANCFORT: Linda, I'm going to make sure we're still out there. Everybody can still hear me?
Okay. All right, so slide 24: the overall rationale for data collection. You know we do this also for vehicles sometimes to look at the vehicle performance to understand how people operate it. The ambient conditions: charging profiles are like with plug-ins. We're seeing 50/55% of the time they're not even—trips are occurring without being plugged in. That explains obviously why the fuel economy is a lot less than that 100-miles-per-gallon number everyone talks about.
Temperature we're seeing up in Canada—we're seeing about 28 miles to the gallon, and why you were seeing 95 miles per the gallon. There are also geographical impacts also.
We want to look at the infrastructure as Steve talked about. Is it sided in the right place? Is it being used? Is it not being used? Are there impacts from time of day pricing? What is the charging level utilization? Is—even though level-one infrastructure will not be installed in EV Project, the vehicles can be charged at that level from 110 Volts—not necessarily towed, though.
Is it in the public or private domain that's charging? Is it at home or versus public? And then is the—what are the macro grid issues and impacts as Steve mentioned having several vehicles in the same neighborhood maybe looking at zip codes or actual local grid level or transformer issues?
So the overall data rationale is we try not to get into best or worse. We try to measure things and determine highest or lowest, longest or shortest, things we can actually measure. We try to minimize those subjective measurements as best we can, which, of course, isn't always possible. We look at human factors, can get involved in that.
We do a lot of testing historically for both the AVTA and EV Project that include third-party testers and both historically and going forward lots of electric utilities, also universities and different government, private, and public fleets.
Slide 26. We publish all of our testing procedures and results. We try to use industry input, industry standards if they're available when we do data collection and testing. Sometimes, though, those standards aren't there like PHEVs. I think it was just last week the fuel economy testing standard just decided on by (SAE), but we've been testing the vehicles for two years, so we had to decide what—how it tested so far.
We try to publish those results in a format people can use, and it does sometimes confuse people with the facts. They don't always like the results.
And then we do as said earlier: try to target the results to who needs them and try to reach out whether it's through SAE or DOE technical committees, conferences, and a lot of public events also, a lot of times presenting the results to the OEMs in Detroit.
Okay, this is a brief graphic of the different vehicle technologies we're bringing into the Idaho Data Management Center. We put out a lot of reports; some never see the light of day. They're internal for data quality. And then individuals get reports, fleets, and we do a lot of simulation and modeling reporting also.
I'm not going to go through the whole list of the PHEV data-collection examples. You can look at it later.
But, you know, there's a lot of information we can break down. It's for 145 plug-in conversions for high motion, grid-point data loggers. Trips, miles, charging events, energy use, how many energy used after trips everyday, between trips everyday, different ways we can cut the data. You can go back and look at that later if you want.
That is actual results though. And then we look at the distribution between the driving between both charger stating and charged depleting modes but ugly when it went through the PDF.
Anyway, slide 20—slide 30, we break down the distribution and number of charging events per day by both weekends and weekdays and see if there's differences there.
Slide 31, we do the distribution, the distance driven. Again how many miles are driven per vehicle per day and a breakdown on the weekdays and the weekend again.
Slide 32, a battery state charge after the last trip. You can see most of the time it's zero to 10% stated charge.
Slide 33, stated charge after it's been charged the night before, but it's getting ready to go on a trip. It's generally about 100% stated charged.
Slide 43, battery stated charge at the start of charging events between trips. So during the day when you start another trip, where is the stated charge? Obviously those vehicles could be—if possible, they could be charged because they're less than 20% stated charge.
Next slide, slide 35, again these are examples of some real world ways you can use the data.
So the battery stated charge at the end of charging events between trips, so daytime charging. It's up to about 55% stated charge. We're going to use some opportunity charging.
Slide 36, this is just a breakdown on way you can look at the data. Well where is the vehicle parked?
Is it opportunity? Are there opportunities to charge?
Is it unknown location?
Is it being parked somewhere where there's no charging history?
Is it at the primary location? Just to do an understanding on how the vehicles are being utilized during the day in relationship to the past charging events.
The distribution of when these vehicles are charged. Looks like most of them are charged at one location, about 60%. But some of them do take advantage of multiple locations of charge.
Slide 38, turns. Okay. So that's an example of some historical events in charging and real world data from the PHEVs.
Now shifting over to the EV Project, it is, reiterating what Steve said, it's very much is an infrastructure demonstration, a—on a vehicle demonstration but you do need those vehicles to understand the infrastructure.
Fifteen thousands pieces of charging equipment at the cities and states as Steve talked about earlier. So we'll be collecting data from about 23,000 charging locations in electric vehicle supply equipment and vehicles from three different data streams via eTec, ECOtalitiy, Nissan and GM data streams also. And there may be some third party data streams. We'll see how that plays out.
So we'll be looking at how that infrastructure is utilized both the fast chargers level two, when did they utilize them?
What are the driver charging patterns?
Are we seeing some chargers used a lot, not used a lot?
Are people turning off their cars?
Near charging infrastructure, (we're) choosing not to. Are they also parking often at locations that was not considered for a charging infrastructure? That in hindsight it would be obviously that should be installed there also.
Are there also be some smart charging components including time of day pricing?
At what multiplier of kilowatt (hour) cost, will people change their behavior, fast charging to time at night that we want them to charge?
And we're also looking at doing some fast charging with some local energy storage.
Slide 40, the data we'll be getting from the infrastructure, it's a time/date stamped, a unique ID for the events and also for that piece of equipment.
And what time is the vehicle connected and disconnected or when does the charging actually start and end? It would be somewhere within that connect/disconnect window.
What's the peak power?
What's the average power?
So energy with the 15 minute rolling peak hour and there'll be some other non-dynamic where we'll have GPS location, the type of charge or contact information.
Okay, Slide 41. Looking at the vehicle data, we're going to have a little bit more data from some of the vehicle participants in this also but we'll get the ID for the vehicle every time there's a key on/key off event with the time and the date stamp. Was it a key on or key off event?
The odometer, the stated charge of the battery, location, how much gas or fuel is used, and then that is recorded like I said each key on/key off event.
Slide 42, just graphically where the vehicles will be and the charging equipment and then in the bottom it's about a 24 kilowatt hour LEAF and it's actually about a 16 kilowatt Volt but that's not all useable energy but rated capacity at the beginning of the project.
And then the EV Project, the type of things we'll present and there'll be public dissemination on the web as well as private dissemination to participants and also to the infrastructure providers as they requested.
Now we get into how many trips are occurring.
What's the distance driven?
What's the distance between number of trips between charging events. Charging we look at how many charging events occur at that piece of equipment. Is it all within the project?
Do we see some charging events outside the project?
How much time is it plugged in and percent of all the time plugged in by EV charging equipment?
And you'll get the data. We'll also be able to collect some data from the vehicle telling the stated charges change from charging infrastructure that may be outside the project which is likely to occur at least occasionally.
Again some of the data for the project, we'll look at the number of complete charging events both at the home charging location and EV Project infrastructure. It's not the home location, again a breakdown on the percents.
How many partial standard charge, charging events occur, and what percent that is of all charging?
And the box on the left shows a graph on the left. When you're done charging where is the stated charge on the vehicle? Different frequencies are given to measure that.
Slide 45, getting into the summary. We want to document. We use systematic methods to document the patterns and charging events. Provide feedback to the folks that are making decisions on where to put the infrastructure.
We want to help ensure that we see the infrastructure is deployed successfully which means in a greater sense that the vehicles we deploy successfully because if the infrastructure is not there, the vehicles are not going to happen. That's just reality. We've seen that in the past.
And you must do in the future, do some sort of a systematic approach to installing infrastructure and do that based on real world travel and charging patterns, miles driven, path, highway paths, things like that, people rest.
And in order for the ICE vehicle be replaced, you know, be replaced by grid connector electric drive vehicles, the infrastructure has to be done correctly.
And ultimately that's how we're going to do significant reduction in petroleum use for transportation.
Final slide, 46, a couple of links there on the bottom for the different projects, the EV Project, the AVTA, and ECOtality.
And I want to thank the funders both Clean Cities and the other folks in the Vehicle Technologies Program that are paid and billed and sponsoring this work.
Linda, should we do questions now?
LINDA BLUESTEIN: Yes. I'd like to maintain the rule that we had during the last quarterly meeting and that is that we would like Clean Cities Coordinators to get preference on asking questions.
So if stakeholders and others could hold off until we have questions from Clean Cities Coordinators completed, I would appreciate that. So we should take questions.
COORDINATOR: And would you like me to give the instructions now Linda?
LINDA BLUESTEIN: Yes, please.
COORDINATOR: Okay, if you would like to ask a question or make a comment please press star 1, unmute your phone and record your name. To withdraw your question, press star 2. Once again to ask a question or make a comment please press star 1, unmute your phone and record your name; one moment.
Okay, Mike, you may want to announce your name once again and your title please.
(MIKE AVUE): Hi. This is (Mike Avue), Policy Director for Clean Cities Ohio. Guys I thought that was a fantastic presentation. We are moving ahead here in Ohio in earnest trying to articulate our own system outside of the EV Project.
And what we're most interested in are connecting with local governments and many of them have questions about how to really achieve a streamline permitting process and as a starting place they're looking for local ordinances or model ordinances.
I was wondering if someone on the panel might be able to speak to the development of model ordinances either through the State of Washington or as a result of the EV Project itself.
STEVE SCHEY: This is Steve. In each one of the areas I can't speak specifically to what Washington is doing. But we know that there are areas that are looking specifically at the expected electrical installation for the EVSE. It is basically a 240 Volt, 40 Amp Circuit.
And some locations are streamlining the ability to install that circuit without a lot of drawings and a lot of effort to make it basically a sample inspection type of permit. That is, in some—in most locations—the permitting people are interested in support of permitting online. That is that a contractor can draw the permit online rather than in person.
And if it is a relatively simple installation to be able to get that installation completed and inspected very quickly.
A lot of locations are committing that their permitting inspections will be done very quickly afterwards for because they do have an interest in promoting fast permitting for electric vehicles. We have had some positive discussions although not firmed up yet about self certification of installations if the installation is rather simple.
So that question really is a very local question. That is each jurisdiction has their own requirement and yet at the same time we're trying to gain support at least regionally with a permitting approach.
JIM FRANCFORT: Steve, I might—this is Jim. I might expand just briefly. I know the State of Washington and the Department of Commerce there within the State of Washington is doing work with a task force to try to come up with some EV deployment standards for the future regarding what kind of intelligence would be required and also potentially some data collection and more about the ability to have smart infrastructure deployed throughout the State of Washington and stay away from the "Dumb Projects."
(MIKE AVUE): Can I make a follow-up question?
JIM FRANCFORT: Fine with me. I'm not sure what the rules are but...
(MIKE AVUE): Yes. I was wondering with respect to cities that are involved in the EV Project, you know, Chattanooga or Knoxville, if there were motions taken on the local level that are going to help this. And again trying to fair it out are there model ordinances in place? You know we have a lot of gun shy and underdeveloped local government players that want to become involved. And they're looking for a starting place.
DON KARNER: Mike, this is Don Karner. I've been listening as well. And when you speak of model ordinance, you know, I kind of view at the ordinance level for the city, you know, that's pretty high level.
As Steve indicated the real issue with respect to streamlining the permitting process really involves residential installations because when someone buys a vehicle you want them to be able to get the charger installed at home very quickly.
And so that's a very simple installation, and it's typically at a level that's not going to be—the issues involved there at a level that aren't going to involve an actual city ordinance. It's really kind of the method by which the authority having jurisdiction, the one that's assigned code and compliance responsibility by the city ordinance, it's how they choose to handle this.
And certainly, you know, there are examples of folks as Steve said that are doing online permitting that help streamline things. And I think there are certainly—there certainly is a push by the EV Project to go beyond that to do some additional streamlining.
You know there will be reports come out of our project that will define what kinds of success we've had with different systems that I think will help what—the issue that you're looking for because there's lots of ways to do it. Some may be more effective than others.
But clearly one of the things that we're worried about with the project is how long is it really taking from the time that we identify we need a permit until the final inspection if one's required is done and you're out of that permitting process and what did that cost because there's a huge variation cost for this between the different authorities having jurisdiction.
So I'm tending to think that the actual results coming out of kind of the actual installations we're going to be doing may be more help to you in trying to decide which of these methods do you want to pick for your city, for your Code Compliance Department whichever—whatever department has been assigned the authority to then to monitor and inspect code compliance.
(MIKE AVUE): Okay, thank you.
DON KARNER: You bet.
COORDINATOR: Okay, our next question is from Joel, if you'd like to repeat your name and your title.
JOEL POINTON: Hi. This is Joel Pointon. And I wear two hats, one with the San Diego Gas and Electric Utility, the other one with the San Diego Clean Cities Coalition.
With the announcement of the Volt entering into the project, will we see an expansion of Volt releases into other regions like San Diego?
And also will the Volt be compatible with DC fast charging?
JIM FRANCFORT: Well I know I can answer the second question that GM at this time is not planning on doing any type of fast charging the Volt at least not for now.
STEVE SCHEY: And with respect to the first question, we are obviously very closely tied in with General Motors. And they are really in control of their release and when they will announce the numbers of vehicles into each one of the market areas.
So I need to defer that question to General Motors.
JOEL POINTON: Thank you.
COORDINATOR: Okay, at this time we have no further questions. Did you want to open it up to everyone else?
LINDA BLUESTEIN: If there are no other questions from Clean Cities Coalition Coordinators we can open it up to everyone else.
COORDINATOR: Okay, once again if you would like to ask a question or make a comment please press star 1, unmute your phone and record your name; one moment.
Okay, our next question comes from (Dave) and if you'd like to repeat your name please.
(DAVE DUVALL): I'm (Dave Duvall), Fairfax County, Virginia.
Can you tell me who the area manager is for the EV Project for the DC area and how to reach that person?
STEVE SCHEY: Because obviously this is a very recent announcement we have not yet established that area manager. And in the meantime you can contact me, Steve Schey. And you can reach me through the ECOtality North America Web site.
(DAVE DUVALL): Okay, thanks.
COORDINATOR: Okay, our next question comes from (Ann) and if you'd like to repeat your name please.
(ANN KORESH): Sure. This is (Ann Koresh) from National Grid. And you had mentioned a long range plan input in the Phase Two planning that included national EV and EVSE deployment projections.
And I was just wondering which resources are you using for this step in terms of are there certain studies that you're strongly referring to for the deployment projections?
And I guess a follow-on too is, how are you approaching kind of taking that and making it relevant at the local EV and EVSE deployment projection stage?
STEVE SCHEY: That's an excellent question because as we started to take a look at what those projections might be, we find that with the current economic situation that automotive manufacturers are reluctant to talk about numbers of vehicles in any significant quantity.
So what we did was we tried to do a search of all available information on projections of EVSE, I mean EV penetration over the next ten years. Some of that included investment companies. Some of that included others that are looking at projections. And some of that included our own. And basically we came out with a conservative approach we thought to the penetration of vehicles and that is included as a baseline as we went into each one of the market areas.
Our request then in the market area is that they validate that same information with their own projections and their own studies. And hopefully by doing that we can come up with what might be considered a very conservative approach to planning for the ten years.
A conservative number of vehicles in deployment would then lead to perhaps the infrastructure that's required at a minimum to support the electric vehicles as well as our projections of what kind of adoption rates, what kind of sustainable business there might be for retailers interested in providing the level-two charging at their retail location or the DC fast charging.
And what destinations might do as they see their competitors start to put charging stations in place as well.
So you might say some of this is speculative but it's—it would try to be a conservative baseline approach. And thus far the areas seem to be fairly well in alignment with our conservative numbers.
(ANN KORESH): Okay, great. Was that—did you consider local demographics as well for early adopters when looking at that?
Steve Schey: Yes. And I know your question, part that I missed on there was how did we take the national down to the local level.
(ANN KORESH): Right.
Steve Schey: We took a look basically at the national level, where—and population centers where they are today as well as factoring in the launch cities for the major OEMs at this point as well as the I guess maybe some kind of factor for enthusiasm in those areas for electric vehicles to try to come up with what we thought were baseline projections in that individual area.
(ANN KORESH): Okay, I see. Great, thanks.
COORDINATOR: Okay and our next question will be from Brad. Your line is open if you'd like to announce your name.
BRAD BEAUCHAMP: Hello. Can you hear me?
JIM FRANCFORT: Yes sir.
BRAD BEAUCHAMP: Hi. Good afternoon. This is Brad Beauchamp. I worked with (Joe Benechenski) on coming off of EV1 electric S10 into the beautiful world of fuel cell electric vehicles.
But one of the critical things and a couple of questions is you're going to get markets that aren't in this initial rollout that are going to be really climber when they come to the party.
Is there going to be a component to this to help mitigate the disappointment for the markets that are not selected?
JIM FRANCFORT: Oh boy. This is Jim Francfort. You know you're speaking to policy decisions at DOE that I try not to get too much into. There are bills in Congress that one is looking at I think about $2 billion that would do, I think it's between 5 and 15 cities, I think something like that.
And, yes, and North Dakota is one of the pre-selected cities or states. You know and that's one piece of legislation that's out there. I know there are some others also.
You know the reality is you can only take so much money and spread it so thin. And still have a decent infrastructure.
So, you know, I know other folks proposed and I can't speak to the selection process. You know that's really more of a DOE headquarters question I think then.
BRAD BEAUCHAMP: I got you. I'm actually at DOE at one of the labs, NETL overseeing some of these projects.
JIM FRANCFORT: Okay.
BRAD BEAUCHAMP: Just the second part is, you know, this effort takes a lot of hand holding with the early adopters even to be able to get them through their early experience. Has that been drawn up yet?
STEVE SCHEY: Well this is Steve. We are working with the OEMs and really helping them to train and educate their customers on the use of the equipment as well as publicly available equipment.
Some of the features that we're designing into our residential unit and our publicly available as Jim mentioned, it's all smart equipment. Smart from the sense that it has data recording and transmitting capability, but it also has a lot of customer features that—and makes it highly functional and easy to use.
So we think as part of the education process, part of the marketing effort that will build as the vehicles become available fourth quarter will help the public to understand the features, the location, mapping features that we provide in our equipment as well as the vehicles may provide to help people understand where the chargers are located, where the DC fast charge safety net equipment is located. We think that'll all help to build customer confidence, relieve the range of anxiety and really build a supportive environment.
And one of the interesting parts of this project also is that one of—two of our partners in this are two universities, University of California Davis and the Ohio State University. Both of them will assist in data collection and evaluation. The UC Davis specifically interested in looking at driver behavior and behavior change.
And that is going to be of significant interest I think as we all move forward. All of us are going to want to know how does the driver of the vehicle, how does the behavior change say from the first couple of months into the project to the end of the project.
And I also realize I neglected to talk about our overall schedule for this project. The vehicles are deployed as you know that's been announced late fourth quarter. Our public infrastructure will be deployed just in advance of that. Our DC fast charging anticipates first quarter of next year with all the residential and publicly available equipment should be on the ground by the end of June of 2011.
At that point actually when the first vehicle goes in we'll start the data collection but the project officially ends at December 31st of 2012.
So there is at least a year and a half of data collection and evaluation that we're doing as part of this process.
So watching how driver behavior changes, we get a fairly substantial timeframe to look at that change.
BRAD BEAUCHAMP: Thanks for that. I know it's a lot more about the human factors believe it or not than the hardware and equipment, but we've got a long road ahead of us and looks pretty—like exciting stuff so.
STEVE SCHEY: Agreed.
COORDINATOR: Okay, our next question comes from (Adam). Would you please announce your name?
(ADAM WHITE): Hi. My name is (Adam White). And I'm with the California Public Utilities Commission. Can you hear me?
JIM FRANCFORT: Yes, sir.
(ADAM WHITE): My question is in regards to the city long-term plans. And I wanted to get your understanding as to the assumptions that you're making regarding the ratio of public chargers that is needed—the ratio of public chargers to EVs that is needed.
And also understand what assumptions you're making about the amount of vehicle charging that'll occur away from the residential charging station.
STEVE SCHEY: Yes. I can address the first question on the ratio of public charging to EVs. We advertise what we consider to be a rich micro-climate. That is to encourage the adoption of electric vehicles initially, the ratio, the number of available public chargers is going to be quite a bit in excess of the number of vehicles. I don't know exactly how—what the numbers, are but in the first year or two, we may be three times as many as much public charging as there are electric vehicles.
We think that that is a very strong incentive for people to see the public charging is available, and it then encourages people to recognize that they—the range of anxiety that they might feel is certainly relieved.
As time goes on through the course of the ten years, that ratio of publicly available to EVs will drop, and what it ends up at the ten year point—I don't recall exactly what the numbers are but probably in the range of about 1.5 times the number of vehicles still available in public.
A lot of that will be driven by local retailers as they see the supply and demand of their equipment, what they're doing, what the competitors are doing.
And part of this project that we have the goals are to identify revenue streams so that this becomes a sustainable business for those in public so as we work through and identify those revenue streams we think that will also encourage the promotion of publicly available equipment.
JIM FRANCFORT: And to answer the first part of the question, we'll tell you that in two years. Not trying to be a wise guy, but, you know, that's really—the reality is part of the goal of the project is to understand that.
And it's also to look at the trends. What happens in the first month or quarter of operations; 23 months later, 24 months later will people be driving to a much lower stated charge and charging at night off peak?
I mean, ideally, you want very little daytime public charging, and you want everyone to charge at, you know, from midnight or 10:00 at night to 2:00 or 4:00 in the morning. But that begs the question: How are you going to pay for public infrastructure if no one uses it so you can have it out there in case they use it.
And that's part of the project too is understanding what that model is, understand the economics is getting—no one's tried to undertake a demonstration deployment and each city is kind of like a living laboratory. And it's trying to understand the results down the road.
And so going forward hopefully we can put in successful infrastructure.
DON KARNER: And this is Don Karner. I guess I would just add as well that some of this becomes an issue of what's public policy, what do you want it to be, because you can derive those percentages of home charging versus away from home charging. I think like the ratio of commercial chargers to vehicles and like the ratio of on peak to off peak electricity costs.
And we'll be experimenting with both of those and trying to understand some of the effects of those through the EV Project.
But to a great extent the control over those is both market driven and driven by public policy.
(ADAM WHITE): All right, thank you very much.
DON KARNER: Sure.
COORDINATOR: Okay, our next question comes from Alicia. Please announce your name.
ALICIA ZATCOFF: Yes. This is Alicia Zatcoff. I'm the Sustainability Manager for the City of Richmond, Virginia.
And my question goes back to sort of the infrastructure questions with permitting and locality, trying to prepare for electric vehicles.
In your preparation for your EV Project, are you aware of any studies or materials that have already been compiled that include best practices or at least, you know, gathering of information from localities that are working on these projects to date that, you know, has information readily available for those of us that are trying to do our research in terms of permitting practices and fees that other localities are charging to sort of—so we are not reinventing the wheel?
STEVE SCHEY: As we've mentioned, before this project there are, and no one has undertaken a project of this magnitude. There's not a lot of information available on best practices as we get into this.
However, we think our consultative process in each one of the areas is helping us to identify best practices as we move forward.
So I think that's part of what we're doing, part of the guidelines. We think the development of those infrastructure deployment guidelines that we have done and is now publicly available, could be a good starting point I think in each one of the areas to start looking at what could be considered best practices in certain areas, although I do state that we haven't completed all of those efforts such as the signage question and accessibility although we—the guidelines do provide pretty strong recommendations there.
ALICIA ZATCOFF: And can you please repeat where those guidelines are available?
STEVE SCHEY: The guidelines should be available on the EV Project Web site.
ALICIA ZATCOFF: Okay, great. And will a copy of your PowerPoint that you all presented today be available?
JIM FRANCFORT: It's already posted. If you go to the AVTA Web site, it's H. there's no www, just avt.inl.gov. There's a bar on the left, a menu bar, go about halfway down. It says AVTA publications, it's under the C Section for Clean Cities Webinar.
ALICIA ZATCOFF: Okay, great. Thank you very much.
JIM FRANCFORT: You're welcome.
COORDINATOR: Okay, our next question comes from (Dave), if you'd like to announce your name please.
(DAVE DUVALL): Yes, this is (Dave Duvall) again in Fairfax County, Virginia. I'm not finding the deployment guidelines on the EV Project Web site. Can you give me a clue where that is?
STEVE SCHEY: You know as I said that I'm checking on that myself. And I see it's not there yet.
It—I would say probably if you check back within the next week, you'll find it there. I know that they have been issued in all of the locations. They've been finalized. We have provided those to the Department of Energy, so they certainly ought to be located there very soon.
LINDA BLUESTEIN: This is Linda Bluestein. And one thing that I'd like to mention is that DOE is preparing to launch, and some of you may have seen the invitation to a public workshop, which we're going to hold here at DOE on July 22nd.
And part of this workshop will include a facilitated session where we're going to be asking for input from a lot of industry people and localities that will be in attendance and also be on a live Webcast.
We're going to try to come up with some ideas about best practices targeting some of these areas such as permitting. We'll have information about how to join the webcast. There'll be a live webcast of the entire meeting up on our Web site.
And we'll make sure that we get that information up on the DOE Office of Vehicle Technologies and Clean Cities Web site so that people can tune into the Webcast.
A limited number of people are going to be in attendance at DOE due to the fact that it's in our auditorium, but it's fairly small.
So anyway, I just wanted to alert you of the fact that DOE is going to be working with a large group, including ECOtality and Coolum and utilities, automakers as well as city-based or place-based people such as cities, counties, and other types of entities such as states to come up with kind of a collective idea on what best practices are.
So I would say stay tuned, and we'll continue to cover that on those Webcasts—on these Webcasts as well.
COORDINATOR: Next question comes from Mike. Would you like to introduce yourself?
MIKE BEDNARZ: Sure. Hi, this is Mike Bednarz from DOE at NETL. My question to you is you've identified the areas and regions that you'd like to concentrate. But have you started to look at particular customer class? For example federal fleets or national parks located in these areas, are those being looked at first as a natural early adopter?
STEVE SCHEY: So I can address fleets in general. You can see at the partnership that we have with Nissan and the LEAF and Chevrolet with the Volt that we are working with those companies right now in the installation of the residential EVSE.
But we're also working with local cities and fleet owners in those various market locations as well.
So we are very interested in fleet vehicle use and behavior. So they are included in the project, and the fleet will also receive then the free charging system and credit toward their installation to participate in the project.
We are very interested in the behavior of fleets and how electric vehicles can transition and penetrate into the performance of fleet equipment.
Now your other question having to do with parks—parks are certainly a destination. And as we look for where publicly available charging should be. That would be one of the destinations that people go to and then that would be a logical place to install charging systems.
JIM FRANCFORT: But, this is Jim, having said that, Steve, the purchase and value of the vehicle for the two year (use) of the project and the participant's agreements to provide data to us, federal fleet's cost share is not—cannot be considered part of the project. And so there's definitely not targeting federal fleets because of the cost share limitations.
MIKE BEDNARZ: Okay fine. That makes sense.
STEVE SCHEY: I'm sorry. I was referring more to like public utilities and other fleet users.
JIM FRANCFORT: Yes, right. I just wanted to mention the federal point though.
STEVE SCHEY: Yes, thank you.
MIKE BEDNARZ: That explains it. Thank you.
JIM FRANCFORT: You're welcome.
COORDINATOR: And one moment. And our next question comes from (John). Please introduce yourself.
(JOHN MCGILLION): Hi. This is (John McGillion) at USEPA Region 9 Office in San Francisco. I'm at the Clean Energy and Climate and the Air Division.
And my question was actually regarding the first one that was posed regarding model ordinances and kind of the appropriate scope to target for regulatory streamlining for EVSE deployment.
And based on some assessments that have been done recently, a lot of emphasis has been put on looking at electric utility service area as the ideal environment within which to streamline the permitting process for EVSE installation.
And I was wondering what from the either DOE as an agency or from the INL folks might be the perspective on that.
DON KARNER: This is Don Karner. The permitting process is driven down through federal regulations to authorities having jurisdiction, and really it's a very location city-based activity. While given utility service territory may cover, certainly typically does cover multiple, maybe even 20 or 30 different authorities having jurisdiction.
And so while there may be some coordination between the utility and these various authorities having jurisdiction, we certainly haven't seen a strong interface that would indicate a situation where the utility could recommend some kind of a permitting process and that would in fact then be adopted.
In fact, utilities are typically not involved in permitting because their authority goes up to the meter only. And they are exempt from the permitting process in virtually every location and with every authority having jurisdiction, so….
(JOHN MCGILLION): I think the question I was trying to pose and my apologies if I didn't articulate it clearly enough was more towards maybe an MPO, or Metropolitan Planning Organization level or a Regional Council of Government as the convening body to streamline the deployment and installation permitting process for EVSE.
DON KARNER: Oh, yes, that absolutely would make a great deal of sense.
(JOHN MCGILLION): Because generally, those areas overlay fairly well with the utility service territory. Not always but they definitely generally capture a pretty large geographic area.
STEVE SCHEY: Absolutely. And where those Council of Governments or Association of Governments exist we have established and find it very effective to work with them. As you mentioned, one of the things we tried to do in those areas for our deployment guidelines for example was to present that to the area governments or Council of Governments for their review as a group.
Each one of the participating authorities, permitting authorities is usually represented in that Council of Governments. And it is an effective platform for a generalized discussion and goal setting. And that is very effective. We agree.
(JOHN MCGILLION): Yes, I mean here in the Bay Area, the Association of Barrier Governments has articulated a very clear goal for new vehicle sales in terms of percentage in different model years for desired deployment.
However they're still one or two steps away from kind of operationalizing that through the local municipality permitting process.
And so I was just wondering if there's any guidance being developed in that regard by either the EV Project or DOE proper.
JIM FRANCFORT: Not DOE that I'm aware of.
STEVE SCHEY: What we have been able to do as part of the EV Project with our area managers in the various locations—obviously, we speak to each other and talk with each other and find out where the ideas and successes of one area and how that might help support the other areas.
So we're trying to cross-pollinate the great ideas. And it's still ultimately up to that regional or that very localized permitting authority what they will accept and what they will do.
(JOHN MCGILLION): Very good, thank you.
LINDA BLUESTEIN: And DOE itself is trying to get it's arm around the situation, and part of our upcoming workshop will include some area government representatives as well as states who are taking a lead, such as Oregon as well as localities themselves, so that we have sort of broad perspective going into looking at public input on those types of things and figuring out what the gaps are and what DOE can create.
But we're just in an information-gathering phase on this right now. And trying to closely follow what's happening in our Recovery Act project.
MAN: Okay, thanks guys.
COORDINATOR: Okay and our next question comes from (Dave). Your line is open.
(DAVE): Oh, thank you. This question might be a little down in the weeds and maybe those deployment plans that I haven't seen.
But one question that came up here was how an owner or operator of the charging, public access charging station can recover the cost of electricity and the capital cost when they're not a utility and therefore can't, at least here, can't charge per kilowatt hour. Is that something that has been thought through?
STEVE SCHEY: Yes. One of the things that we specifically avoid is charging or collecting revenue for kilowatts used in the equipment. We tend to take more a look at like a public parking meter. The cost for the service or the convenience of being able to park your vehicle on the street, you pay a fee for that service. And the fee that you pay then covers all of the overhead cost associated with that parking spot.
So as we look at the publicly available charging systems, in order to have any kind of sustainable business there, you will have to charge some kind of fee for service.
And that fee should eventually for it to make business sense should promote new business for the retailer. They should be able to see that because they have that charging system there that it is driving new business in—that they're generating revenue off that new business but also that there is revenue collected from actually providing that service for people.
And that is one of the things that this project is going to allow us to do is to test out different methods of collecting that revenue, what that revenue collection should be, and how important is that for the EV driver.
(DAVE): Okay, thank you.
Coordinator: Okay, we do have one person that has queued up, but I was not able to obtain their name. We'll see if we can get their attention. If you have queued up please, unmute your phone and record your name.
Once again, if you have been called on or have queued up and have not been called on, please unmute your phone and record your name.
(ERIC LEE): (Eric Lee).
COORDINATOR: Okay, go ahead.
(ERIC LEE): Hi. This is (Eric Lee) with Chrysler. I just—to the person who is with the EPA Region 9, they were asking some questions on general permits streamlining. I just wanted to make them aware that there's an ongoing effort within U.S. Car, Freedom Car, as part of the Grid Interaction Tech Team, which includes members not only automotive manufacturers but utilities, (APRI) National Labs and the like, but to come up with basically a national permit template that could be used by, for instance one of the things that he cited was a national or a regional government group, and those are the kind of scenarios where something like a best practice permit to install kind of concept would be potentially useful.
But that's actually—it's a project funded through the DOE, and it's part of the Grid Interaction Tech Team through U.S. Car.
COORDINATOR: And at this time, we have no further questions.
JIM FRANCFORT: All right, Linda, this is Jim. Thank you.
STEVE SCHEY: And I agree. Thank you for the opportunity to speak about this important topic. We appreciate it.
LINDA BLUESTEIN: Well, we appreciate you coming and informing us on this. And we'll be kicking off another quarterly Webcast that we'll be sending information out in about three months.
And please visit the Clean Cities and Office of Vehicle Technologies Web site to get information about the Webcast on July 22nd. It will be a webcast of the Live Meeting at DOE regarding community readiness for plug-in vehicles and infrastructure. And it will partially be an information gathering process where we'll take input from people in the audience and also people on the webcast.
So anyway thank you very much for your time. Thanks everybody for joining us. And stay tuned and we'll give you a head's up for our next quarterly webcast. Thanks.